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Moderation On Groklaw


Groklaw

By br3n, Section grok*/OSRM Articles
Posted on Thu Nov 11th, 2004 at 14:10:17 EST

I posted these comments on ckx  but it is now time for them to be moved.They belong here.

br3n

moderation on groklaw part 1
by: br3nsc (F/south carolina)     11/09/04 07:57 am
Msg: 2221 of 2409

you must remember i am not a techie so dont fully understand all the ways things work
this post is from my perspective only.
i was going to post to ip-wars but i am not sure of html or any thing like that and didnt want to distract from headlines already posted.
i was a moderator on groklaw.i did what is called hide the comments if it was obscene in an offensive way and there were plenty of them.
but i also saw the hidden comments that were done and tagged *auto hide*
a lot of these were from anonymous but some were also from posters with accounts and at times with nothing offensive.i had questioned at times some of the comments that were done manually but these non offensive when i questioned would usually receive either no reply from pj or the reply that they were off topic and distraction .
i myself developed doubts back when the patent story broke about 283 patents infringing by osrm.
no excuse for holding the belief except the end goal was still there.i asked pj questions about osrm but i wasnt really happy with answers.nothing specific tho.just unease on my part.
the nail to finish this was when jgabriel account was deleted.
cont in part 2
br3n

moderation on groklaw part 2
by: br3nsc (F/south carolina)     11/09/04 08:07 am
Msg: 2222 of 2409

when his account was deleted i thought back to the many times i had defended PJ on yahoo scox board.no matter how strongly i might have defended he *always* remained polite.he was also that i remembered from the very early days on radio.he was one that i had trusted and read his comments and was sad when i couldnt find his comments.then i got to thinking about some other voices that had started with us in the early days and harlan.this question had come up several times.there was just noway to continue to make excuses.
my own eyes just could not ignore and use any excuses to explain.
i wrote to PJ about jgabriel and have not received any reply even now.
my moderation status was removed either because of the email to pj about jgabriel or because of the questions i voiced on yahoo scox board.
br3n

< Microsoft to Offer Expanded Indemnification (30 comments) | DANGER, DANGER, Don't talk to Strangers! (12 comments) >
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Moderation On Groklaw | 40 comments (40 topical, 0 editorial, 4 hidden)
Deleted posts come back (4.88 / 9) (#9)
by mrbuttle on Thu Nov 11th, 2004 at 20:34:49 EST
(User Info)
I've debated posting this on a public forum, but decided that information wants to be free, so get it while it's hot before the take down notice goes out.

While searching for backinfullforce on various lessor search engines, I came accross one that doesn't seem to respect robots.txt. It also archives the pages it searches.

The following site may prove useful to those GL exiles wanting to id their posts to ask for them to be deleted.

See t_t_b here.
Here's Harlan.
Here's w4rmc47.
I'm not sure what jgabriel66's nym was but here's some of his.

An interesting note, if you click on some, but not all, of the archived results, they are no longer attributed to the authors.

  • Re: Deleted posts come back by mikey, 11/11/2004 21:04:40 EST (4.33 / 6)
  • Re: Deleted posts come back by mikey, 11/11/2004 20:48:55 EST (3.33 / 6)
    • More on Gigablast by mrbuttle, 11/12/2004 17:06:23 EST (4.00 / 8)
      • Re: More on Gigablast by pgk, 11/12/2004 17:16:37 EST (4.42 / 7)
        • Re: More on Gigablast by heimdal31, 11/12/2004 17:30:46 EST (4.37 / 8)
          • Re: More on Gigablast by pgk, 11/12/2004 17:37:48 EST (3.71 / 7)
          • Re: More on Gigablast by pgk, 11/12/2004 18:16:59 EST (3.62 / 8)
        • Re: More on Gigablast by mrbuttle, 11/12/2004 17:40:17 EST (3.87 / 8)
          • Re: More on Gigablast by pgk, 11/12/2004 17:53:42 EST (3.71 / 7)
            • Re: More on Gigablast by mrbuttle, 11/12/2004 18:34:14 EST (3.87 / 8)
Re: Moderation On Groklaw (4.23 / 13) (#5)
by heimdal31 (heimdal31_ip_warsNO@SPAM.threenorth.com) on Thu Nov 11th, 2004 at 15:42:58 EST
(User Info) http://www.threenorth.com/sco
This seems to explain the things that Al and I tried to describe on the Yahoo SCOX list a number of weeks ago.

It seems that the default way that comments are hidden on GrokLaw is in such a way that they are invisible to all but three classes of people:

  1.  Those with moderator status

  2.  The original poster when logged in

  3.  Any machine coming from the IP that posted the comment.  (Confirmed this last on my home network where I tested from Linux and three different Win OS's using a number of different browsers.)

It also appears that there are two different ways these posts can get into their hidden status:

  1.  The individual post is placed there by a moderator like br3n. (NOTE:  This means that PJ reply with the literal truth to someone asking about a deleted post by saying that she did not deleted the comment.)

  2.  All posts from a specific user and/or IP address are automatically black-holed to this hidden status.  This would seem to be the auto-hide that Brenda talks about.

I find it a bit annoying to have been called a SCO shill because I pointed out that things like this were going on.  Honestly, I'd have made much less noise in the first place if someone in authority had admitted that it was hapenning.

---Tim Rushing
  • Re: Moderation On Groklaw by warmcat, 11/11/2004 17:31:02 EST (4.46 / 15)
    • Re: Moderation On Groklaw by pgk, 11/11/2004 17:42:21 EST (3.90 / 11)
    • Re: Moderation On Groklaw by br3n, 11/11/2004 17:40:25 EST (3.54 / 11)
      • She's still lying, but doesn't necessarily know it by mjpieters, 11/12/2004 04:59:42 EST (3.84 / 13)
Re: Moderation On Groklaw (4.00 / 16) (#2)
by ColonelZen (tzellers lieth within pobox of thy kingdom com) on Thu Nov 11th, 2004 at 14:52:16 EST
(User Info)
As I commented on CKX you have nothing to feel sorry or ashamed of, and much I think you ought be proud of.

You did your best for the community as you believed in it.

You stood behind PJ and GrokLaw until you saw behaviour which was over your line, then you acknowledged the change forthrightly and honestly.

I said we all draw our own lines.  It's not even a case that our lines differ that much as to what our threshold of awareness is.

On SCOX GrokWars were in progress and I ignored them or in some cases defended GL/PJ where I felt it was just, but was only dimly aware that some people had issues, and in at least one case I acknowledged that it sounded unfair.  But I considered it a minor pecadillo and generally wasn't paying attention.

It was only after I and many others whom I respect on SCOX were denigrated slanderously by PJ that I became aware something at GL was very, very wrong. IOW, I too didn't wake up until slammed with a cluestick with an iron core.

Your support of GL was honorable and just.  You changed your position as you became aware of new facts and circumstances.  Many, probably most people fail to make that leap when it is required. In my case I made that leap because I was "pushed out".  

In your case you made that leap because of what you saw happening to others.  We have a phrase for that: moral courage.

Thank you for that and all your many other contributions!

-- TWZ

  • Re: Moderation On Groklaw by br3n, 11/11/2004 15:06:17 EST (3.90 / 11)
    • Re: Moderation On Groklaw by hgc, 11/18/2004 08:43:56 EST (4.50 / 4)
      • Re: Moderation On Groklaw by br3n, 11/18/2004 09:09:26 EST (3.60 / 5)
        • Re: Moderation On Groklaw by JCausey, 11/18/2004 09:57:55 EST (3.85 / 7)
          • Re: Moderation On Groklaw by br3n, 11/18/2004 10:11:40 EST (3.20 / 5)
            • Re: Moderation On Groklaw by nono2sco, 11/18/2004 10:22:19 EST (3.33 / 3)
              • Re: Moderation On Groklaw by br3n, 11/18/2004 11:07:01 EST (3.66 / 3)
Lawrence Lessig's Blog (3.81 / 11) (#23)
by mrbuttle on Sun Nov 14th, 2004 at 16:07:13 EST
(User Info)
I was wandering around Lessig's blog, which by the way appears to be Creative Commons licensed in it's entirety. Lessig is Chairman of the Board of Directors of Creative Commons.

 I came across this thread from Jan. 2004 containing comments to Lessig's post "Darl Fuds Again". It quickly turned into a "GL critics vs. GL defenders" thread, much like we see here and at the Yahoo boards. 'three blind mice's" tinfoil hat theories are provoking. PJ stops by to defend herself, but doesn't refute all the items raised. Using the info in the thread and public records searches turns up a lot of interesting information. I'll leave that as an excerise to fellow ip-warriors if they want to persue it though by not posting anything I've found.

To keep this on topic to the moderation story, I compared it to the Google and Gigablast caches and found no deleted comments, except for 3 spam urls.

  • Re: Lawrence Lessig's Blog by warmcat, 11/15/2004 03:36:17 EST (3.50 / 8)
  • Re: Lawrence Lessig's Blog by br3n, 11/14/2004 16:38:16 EST (3.42 / 7)
    • Re: Lawrence Lessig's Blog by mrbuttle, 11/14/2004 17:02:52 EST (3.87 / 8)
    • Re: Lawrence Lessig's Blog by Potential Recruit, 11/15/2004 06:51:48 EST (2.00 / 9)
      • Re: Lawrence Lessig's Blog by pgk, 11/15/2004 07:12:27 EST (3.85 / 7)
      • Re: Lawrence Lessig's Blog by br3n, 11/15/2004 07:22:12 EST (3.80 / 5)
Re: Moderation On Groklaw (3.70 / 10) (#1)
by shanson29 (scott_hanson at yahoo dot com) on Thu Nov 11th, 2004 at 14:47:40 EST
(User Info)
kudos to you, br3n.  Your passion and devotion for the cause is admirable, yet you have not forgotten that no one has a monopoly on the truth.

Reminds me of the bumper sticker--
"If you can't change your mind, are you sure you have one?" or something to that effect.

Your work, thoughts and presence is valued.

Scott

  • Re: Moderation On Groklaw by br3n, 11/11/2004 15:08:19 EST (3.50 / 8)
    • Re: Moderation On Groklaw by br3n, 11/12/2004 05:05:27 EST (3.25 / 4)
      • Re: Moderation On Groklaw by JohnGabriel, 11/12/2004 12:26:52 EST (3.60 / 5)
Bye bye spambot (none / 0) (#40)
by Potential Recruit on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 12:30:48 EST
This used to be a spambot post that is flooding the site. Due to volume, I had to resort to this while I work to block access by these bots. My apologies - thanks for your patience.

Jeff

Moderation On Groklaw | 40 comments (40 topical, 0 editorial, 4 hidden)
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