IP-WARS.NET - a forward command post of the IP Wars
create account| Front Page|Mission|Standard Operating Procedures|Operating Instructions(aka FAQ's)|Privacy Policy|Site Stats/Info|Admin Actions|Search
Sections:General|IP|SCO v World |Microsoft|grok*/OSRM|IPW Site Meta|Logbooks|Diaries|Legal Documents|View All Articles

Will Sun Outshine Linux


General News

By mikey, Section General Articles
Posted on Mon Nov 15th, 2004 at 16:13:43 EST

Sun released Solaris 10 today, for free.  With more promises of open sourcing it.

Just for grins I downloaded and installed it in a VMWare VM.

I just have to ask all of the Linux geeks - will you use it?  If Sun really does open source Solaris with an OSI approved license, will this slow down the hurricane known as linux?  Sun is even offering, gasp, full indemnification.

So when your boss says "Why aren't we using Solaris on our x86 boxes instead of Linux", what are you going to say?

< Windstorm Blows Away FC2 (8 comments) | Fact and fiction in the Microsoft-SCO relationship (12 comments) >
Display: Sort:
Will Sun Outshine Linux | 46 comments (37 topical, 9 editorial, 8 hidden)
Desperation? (4.85 / 7) (#18)
by hgc (hgcSPAM@SUXsymuli.com) on Mon Nov 15th, 2004 at 21:05:37 EST
(User Info) http://www.symuli.com/

Firstly, I have administered various Solaris boxes. Mostly an assortment of SPARC and UltraSPARC workstations, but also a dual USPARC E450 (very nice machine, if you can afford it). My experience is with Solaris 6, 7, and 8.

Solaris is an excellent proprietary UNIX. It is very stable, well maintained, and can be made very secure. You can bet your enterprise on it.

My negative comments are as follows. The config file design in /etc is crufty at best. The rc script design is atrocious, particularly when compared with the fine granularity of the rc script design of Red Hat.

Like all UNIX variants and clones, one is faced with the "it's all the same, only different" conundrum. All of the proprietary UNIXes have diverged, making the emphasis on the "only different". If you have administered many different Linux distros, the differences among them are minor compared to the differences between proprietary UNIX variants.

Solaris has the same problem that most proprietary UNIX variants all have, they come from companies that have marketing departments that decide what the feature list shall be (this is not always a bad thing, but it certainly can be when the company decision makers put more weight on the marketing department's input than on the input from engineering). In all fairness to SUN, I have observed over the years that they do seem to reach a well balanced consensus between marketing and engineering. This is why they have been so successful for the past two decades. However, the Linux development process places far more weight on the technical input than happens at any company, no matter how well run that company is.

I have seen no comparative benchmarks for Solaris on x86 versus Linux. Neither have I seen any comparative benchmarks for Solaris on iAMD64 versus Linux. SUN announced that Solaris 10 is faster than Linux. The fine print is that this 'faster' is on a 128 way ultraSPARC SMP box and it was compared against Linux 2.4.21. I wonder how it compares against 2.6.x?

Solaris has no advantage whatsoever on single processor machines.

Now for the reality injection. Earth to SUN, "OSes are now a commodity, we don't need Solaris anymore."

In my opinion, SUN needs to do the following in order to remain relevant:

  • Continue to make excellent hardware as you have always done. The SPARC processor is not dead yet. Your new multi-core SPARC designs look to be kick-ass. You have an excellent history in building very reliable and high performance SMP big iron. Covering your bets with Opteron is a very smart move. Please keep this stuff up.
  • Your support has always been excellent. Make it even better. Carly is destroying this at HPQ (I no longer have any hope for them at all), so we know that your competition in the big iron market is really only IBM and they are doing everything they can to make their support the best in the world. Follow suit. Competition is a good thing.
  • It's time to end of life the proprietary OS crap. Put the effort into making Linux run really well on all of your iron, both big and little. Get all of your people to be Linux experts now. The clock is ticking, and I'm afraid you may already be too late.
  • Move all of your enterprise features into Linux. Put your middleware on Linux. Stop trying to convince the world that they really want Solaris instead. It's not working. Your customers are not idiots. The OS is no longer a factor in competing. You have to compete on middleware, enterprise level features, and support. Using Linux everywhere will actually make it easier to steal customers from your competition.
  • That Linux distro that you market as the "SUN Java Desktop", how about putting the L word in there somewhere.
  • Did I mention "GTF over your Linux phobia"? Is it time for Scott to retire? Who is making these bogus decisions?

I like competition. Competition means I have choices. SGI is now selling 512 Itanium Altix machines running Linux and so they may yet survive. IBM is putting Linux on every machine they sell. Both of those companies have end of lifed their proprietary UNIXes, but will of course support any of their customers that choose to remain on those platforms for quite some time. HPQ is now becoming a dead duck in the enterprise datacenter (IMHO, it should be a criminal offense to have management that stupid).

It will be a very sad day if SUN goes the way of Digital Equipment Corp, but I fear it may well be that I am watching history repeat itself. It's rather frightening how much damage arrogance can cause.

Bottom line: I won't be messing with Solaris on any platform, x86 or *SPARC. The future is Linux, with some *BSD for good measure. I don't care what license they pick if they do actually 'Open Source' Solaris. Solaris is irrelevant.

--
© 2004,5 Harry G. Clayton
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. -- Henry Spencer

  • Re: Desperation? by wonboodoo, 11/20/2004 14:00:46 EST (3.75 / 4)
  • Re: Desperation? by nathanh, 11/16/2004 06:47:19 EST (3.66 / 6)
    • Re: Applications? by hgc, 11/16/2004 09:18:31 EST (4.00 / 4)
      • Re: Applications? by nathanh, 11/16/2004 17:17:06 EST (4.20 / 10)
        • Re: Applications? by hgc, 11/16/2004 17:38:08 EST (3.00 / 3)
Hey, you. Let's get us some of that Solaris (4.28 / 7) (#10)
by DirtyDriver (superdave c/o allthegooddomainnamesweretakenexcept) on Mon Nov 15th, 2004 at 16:50:47 EST
(User Info)
"Why aren't we using Solaris on our x86 boxes instead of Linux?"

"Cause if it ain't broke, I don't fix it."

"But Solaris has predictive self-healing."

"Our Linux server hasn't ever needed healing."

"Solaris has Extreme Network Performance!"

"Great! Will it speed up the printer?"

"And Solaris enables you to give each application its own private environment, so you can reboot a container for whatever reason."

"We've never rebooted the Linux server."

"Solaris can run Linux applications natively."

"Well, the fine print says we have to have Linux on the server anyway."

"Feh, I think you're just being negative. See this glass? Do you see it as half-empty or half-full?"

"That glass is twice as big as it needs to be."



thisone.com

  • Re: Hey, you. Let's get us some of that Solaris by mikey, 11/15/2004 17:24:38 EST (4.00 / 3)
    • Re: Hey, you. Let's get us some of that Solaris by jackstrangio, 11/15/2004 17:37:14 EST (3.33 / 3)
      • Re: Hey, you. Let's get us some of that Solaris by DirtyDriver, 11/15/2004 17:42:45 EST (3.66 / 3)
      • Re: Hey, you. Let's get us some of that Solaris by mikey, 11/15/2004 17:51:58 EST (3.66 / 3)
        • Re: Hey, you. Let's get us some of that Solaris by DirtyDriver, 11/15/2004 20:17:32 EST (4.00 / 5)
Re: Will Sun Outshine Linux (3.80 / 5) (#33)
by deepdistrust (deepdistrustspamwelcome@yahoo.com) on Wed Nov 17th, 2004 at 11:06:05 EST
(User Info)
< I just have to ask all of the Linux geeks - will you use it? >

I am hardly a Linux geek, but I didn't have a good experience with Solaris 9 when I tried it a couple of years ago. First of all, I had to go out and get X on my own. I had to go looking for the ethernet card device driver on my own. Getting the system to bring up CDE on start-up was a struggle. Also, the desktop was real slow! Then, the internet connection would stop working every now & then, and I could never quite debug that.

  • Re: Will Sun Outshine Linux by mikey, 11/17/2004 13:13:02 EST (4.00 / 4)
Re: Will Sun Outshine Linux (3.66 / 3) (#22)
by nathanh on Tue Nov 16th, 2004 at 06:44:11 EST
(User Info)

I just have to ask all of the Linux geeks - will you use it?

Yes, of course.


So when your boss says "Why aren't we using Solaris on our x86 boxes instead of Linux", what are you going to say?

If you are a professional then you would have justified your software and hardware choices to your boss before you deployed. Then you wouldn't have to answer that question.

  • Re: Will Sun Outshine Linux by mikey, 11/16/2004 10:06:14 EST (3.66 / 3)
Sun to patent per-year, per-person pricing? (3.66 / 3) (#35)
by mikey (mikey at badpenguins dot com) on Fri Nov 19th, 2004 at 01:15:56 EST
(User Info) http://www.ip-wars.net
Saw an interesting little tidbit in http://news.com.com/Sun+plans+patent+protection+for+open-source+Solaris/2100-7344_3-5456451.html?par t=rss&tag=5456451&subj=news.7344.20


Schwarz himself has criticized the U.S. patent system, but at the same time, he has applied for a patent on Sun's per-person, per-year pricing.

There is a link in the article, but the link goes to a non-related article.


---
DISCLAIMER:
IANAL, may have no idea what the heck I am talking about, yadda yadda yadda.

Re: Will Sun Outshine Linux (3.60 / 5) (#31)
by anadromous cowherd (yoo aitch from alumni in caltech in edu) on Wed Nov 17th, 2004 at 09:56:49 EST
(User Info)
>>>I just have to ask all of the Linux geeks - will you use it?<<<

At home, no. The hardware is mostly beige-box x86, and I've used linux for long enough that when I build (or re-build or re-install OS on) a new computer, linux is the default choice, with OpenBSD on the firewall.

At work, sure. Our customers aren't computer geeks, so when they buy a computer, they won't mess with the installed OS; on a Sun machine, that'll be solaris. Our software has to work there (and on other OSs). But (a) I don't admin those computers; and (b) as far as our software is concerned, there isn't too much that's specific to solaris or linux or whatever (and what is there, we try hard to keep segregated in a few portability areas).

I don't think open-sourcing solaris will slow linux; I think there are enough more people working on linux (that is, specifically kernel developers) that it will evolve faster than solaris will, and as someone else said, linux development is much more tilted toward the technical side, which is something we linux geeks like.

A. Cowherd

  • Re: Will Sun Outshine Linux by pgk, 11/17/2004 10:48:23 EST (4.00 / 3)
Live Chat (none / 2) (#13)
by mikey (mikey at badpenguins dot com) on Mon Nov 15th, 2004 at 17:37:52 EST
(User Info) http://www.ip-wars.net
There is a live chat with Scott McNealy going on right now at:

http://sunchat.savvis.tv/post/20041115/


---
DISCLAIMER:
IANAL, may have no idea what the heck I am talking about, yadda yadda yadda.

  • Re: Live Chat by mikey, 11/15/2004 22:24:35 EST (4.50 / 4)
    • Re: Live Chat by pgk, 11/16/2004 05:38:34 EST (4.33 / 3)
    • Re: Live Chat by warmcat, 11/16/2004 05:23:09 EST (4.00 / 4)
      • Re: Live Chat by nathanh, 11/16/2004 06:54:12 EST (3.85 / 7)
        • Re: Live Chat by pgk, 11/16/2004 07:09:22 EST (3.83 / 6)
        • Re: Live Chat by warmcat, 11/16/2004 07:08:17 EST (3.80 / 5)
Re: Will Sun Outshine Linux (none / 2) (#17)
by infosecgroupie (infosecgroupie@yahoo.com) on Mon Nov 15th, 2004 at 20:52:45 EST
(User Info) http://www.finchhaven.com/TSCOG/
>>> I just have to ask all of the Linux geeks - will you use it? <<<

No.

i_s_g
--
== t_t_b, == Mr_Horse; != "Horse Lover"
Also see: http://www.finchhaven.com/TSCOG/

Bye bye spambot (none / 0) (#45)
by Potential Recruit on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 10:58:24 EST
This used to be a spambot post that is flooding the site. Due to volume, I had to resort to this while I work to block access by these bots. My apologies - thanks for your patience.

Jeff

Bye bye spambot (none / 0) (#46)
by Potential Recruit on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 10:59:00 EST
This used to be a spambot post that is flooding the site. Due to volume, I had to resort to this while I work to block access by these bots. My apologies - thanks for your patience.

Jeff

Will Sun Outshine Linux | 46 comments (37 topical, 9 editorial, 8 hidden)
Display: Sort:

Links

Firefox 2

Use OpenOffice.org

Add to Technorati Favorites

Join EFF Today

ToTehMoon web site button

~ Merkey v The Internet et al Docs
~ Yahoeuvre
~ tuxrocks.com (SCO cases legal docs)
~ scofacts.org
~ eagle.petrofsky.org
~ Zen's Den
~ Yahoo SCOX Message Board
~ Lamlaw
~ Microsoft Watch
~ Groklaw
~ Korgwal - a Groklaw mirror
~ nosoftwarepatents.com
~ Flame Warriors
~ SCOXE Wars
~ Get your Merkey Number here!
~ Digital Law Online

Recent Comments

Breaking News and External Article Comments
General News – General Articles
by ColonelZen, January 5
60 comments
» SCO Lifeboat List from Stats_for_all – AncientBrit, May 6
» Not a single comment on the Novell... – sphealey, Jul 22
» Re: Not a single comment on the Novell... – AncientBrit, Aug 8

Eagle Loses Appeals
General News – General Articles
by JCausey, December 15
1 comment
» Re: Eagle Loses Appeals – br3n, Jan 7

The Chinese Room Revisited, Thoughts on...
General News – Diary
by ColonelZen, November 24
1 comment
» Re: The Chinese Room Revisited,... – ColonelZen, Nov 24

How to Transition a Windows Shop to Linux
General News – General Articles
by JCausey, November 21
3 comments
» Re: How to Transition a Windows Shop to... – ColonelZen, Nov 22
» Re: How to Transition a Windows Shop to... – JCausey, Nov 23
» Re: How to Transition a Windows Shop to... – ColonelZen, Nov 23

Advocacy
General News – Diary
by br3n, October 29
3 comments
» Re: Advocacy – br3n, Nov 2
» Re: Advocacy – ColonelZen, Nov 2
» Re: Advocacy – br3n, Nov 4

Very Bad News for Darl and Ralph
SCO v The World – Diary
by ColonelZen, October 13
7 comments
» Re: OT advocacy – br3n, Oct 26
» Re: OT advocacy – JCausey, Oct 28
» Re: OT advocacy – br3n, Oct 29

Some SCOX Financial Analysis
SCO v The World – SCO Related Articles
by JCausey, September 21
13 comments
» Re: Some SCOX Financial Analysis – br3n, Oct 3
» Re: Some SCOX Financial Analysis – ColonelZen, Oct 3
» Re: Some SCOX Financial Analysis – br3n, Oct 6

Open Source in Education - Opening Doors
General News – General Articles
by JCausey, September 28
1 comment
» Re: Open Source in Education - Opening... – br3n, Sep 29

An IPOWER ful experience
General News – Diary
by ColonelZen, September 25
6 comments
» IPOWER SysAdmin Doesn't Do Weekends!! – ColonelZen, Sep 29
» Re: An IPOWER ful experience – ColonelZen, Sep 29
» Re: An IPOWER ful experience – ColonelZen, Sep 29

Learning C#
Microsoft – Diary
by ColonelZen, September 23
1 comment
» Re: Learning C# – ColonelZen, Sep 23

Comment search...

Recent Diaries

SCO has a Potential and Credible BILLION Dollar Liability
by ColonelZen - March 15

The Chinese Room Revisited, Thoughts on Consciousness
by ColonelZen - November 24
1 comment


Advocacy
by br3n - October 29
3 comments


An IPOWER ful experience
by ColonelZen - September 25
6 comments


Learning C#
by ColonelZen - September 23
1 comment


Getting ruby DBI for Mysql and Postgresql working on FC 6
by ColonelZen - March 7

Declaration of Linus Torvalds
by nedu - February 13
1 comment


Declaration of M. Douglas McIlroy
by nedu - February 12
6 comments


Declaration of Ulrich Drepper
by nedu - February 11
1 comment


Declaration of K. Y. Srinivasan
by nedu - February 11


More Diaries...

Login

Make a new account

Username:
Password:

Older Stories

Monday May 28th
Why SCO Does Not Own the Unix Copyrights
   (0 comments)

Thursday April 5th
It Can Really Happen - Eagle Broadband Delisting from AMEX
   (5 comments)

Monday March 12th
OpenOffice.org Sends Open Letter to Dell
   (0 comments)

Tuesday March 6th
Preliminary Order in Prohibition
   (2 comments)

Monday January 15th
[Linux-ia64] optimizing __copy_user
   (12 comments)

Older Stories...

Related Links

~ More on General News
~ Also by mikey

SourceForge Logo Powered by Scoop

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies or owners.
Comments, articles and logbooks are owned by the Poster. By posting on the ip-wars.net web site, all posters grant a license to ip-wars.net to publish the content and release it pursuant to the Creative Commons License that covers the rest of the site. For more details, please check out the Standard Operating Procedures. Also, please read the Privacy Policy for the site. Finally, DO NOT send e-mail to the site owner (Jeff Causey) unless you have read and agree to the terms regarding e-mail included in the Standard Operating Procedures.
Everything else © 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 ip-wars.net and Jeffrey G. Causey and is licensed under a
Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons License.