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A Brief History of GrokWar


Groklaw

By ColonelZen, Section grok*/OSRM Articles
Posted on Fri Nov 5th, 2004 at 08:06:30 EST

A Brief History of GrokWar

There were harbingers, forerunners of the coming storm before most of us took notice. Whispers of deletion of otherwise innocuous discussions of policy. Entreaties for equity unheeded. Dark hints of commercial conflicts of interest unanswered.

We are discussing GrokLaw, of course, http://www.groklaw.net. Last year SCO began its attack upon Linux, suing IBM and maligning Linux for "millions of lines" of stolen code. As SCO began a PR attack in earnest the early defenses were scattered and disparate.

But paralegal, Pamela Jones (PJ), had her blog and she was a fan of Linux. She wrote her opinions of the legal implications of the claims SCO was making, and the techie community not knowing and understanding law took notice. It grew and became a rallying point. The Linux techies added their expertise and other legally trained people occasionally added their voice. It grew. The wider media needed expertise in both the technical and legal questions to understand the issues and stakes; at GrokLaw both were available in one convenient place. Soon the trade magazines and mass media were lauding it. By late 2003 GrokLaw as unquestionably the most significant voice and widest used clearing house for information for vindicating Linux against the claims SCOX was making.

But GrokLaw was not the only voice. The Yahoo SCOX financial board had an established community of recognised posters also critical of SCOX. This was to become the battleground for GrokWar.

The early indicators were posts about capricious comment deletion policies on GL. Questions about the ethical conundrum of PJ's employ by OSRM, a business which stands to profit by greater fear of the legal liabilities of Linux. There were allegations of misappropriated credit where work done by some people and posted on their own sites would appear on GrokLaw with no attribution other than "a volunteer". And the "blind deletion" problem, where a post on GrokLaw which was marked for deletion could not be seen as deleted by the poster, was troubling as well.

The storm broke in early October of 2004. Andy, aka w4rmc47, had written a tool and site, yahoeuvre which indexed the SCOX posts in various ways and allowed them to be summarized and re-presented in a variety of useful ways. He wanted to extend that to GrokLaw and its comments and wrote PJ for some information on doing so. PJ flat out told him no. After some back and forth and waiting more than a day for a last reply Andy, apparently wishing to know what was wrong, asked the question on the SCOX board excerpting some of his email with PJ.

That Sunday night (October 10) Andy's posts led to a long discussion. For many or most it was a largely intellectual exercise. Until that time the notice on each GrokLaw page had said that the site was licensed under the Creative Commons (v2) License though it added that each contributor owned his own works. It seemed to many participants that there should be absolutely no legal bar to indexing GrokLaw by any site which abided by the terms of the CCL; PJ's refusal did not appear to have a basis in the licensing terms of her site. Late that evening the notice on GrokLaw pages was changed to "GrokLaw (c) Copyright 2003, 2004 Pamela Jones". Many in the SCOX community were disheartened and disturbed by the change but almost universally acknowledged her right to do so. There was no subsequent doubt that an index after the license change would be a copyright infringement.

Still it might have been seen as no more than an autumn rain, misunderstandings and personality conflicts, but ...

A few days later in comments on GrokLaw PJ referred to that discussion as "an astroturfing production". The next day in another comment after referring to the discussion, in the next paragraph with no segue she commented that Darl McBride had said that he had wanted his people to post on GrokLaw. Additional comments by PJ and her supporters referring to the SCOX posters as "yahoos", shills and astroturfers were legion. The SCOX community who participated in that discussion, including many long established and respected members clearly antagonistic to SCO's claims against Linux, were deeply embittered. They had long regarded the somewhat overlapping GrokLaw community as "fellow travelers" and felt betrayed.

For several weeks sniping back and forth continued. On the SCOX board tensions ran high as there were many regulars who felt greater loyalty to one side or the other.

At the end of October one of the most respected members of both communities, John Gabriel, announced that his account on GrokLaw had been deleted with little in the way of explanation. The storm of comments partially fractured the SCOX community, some members taking their "off topic" comments to a little used financial board CKX. To many what was worse than John's deletion of account from GrokLaw is the highlighting of a problem with the software on GrokLaw where all of John's previous comments have lost attribution; they are now attributed on GrokLaw to "anonymous".

John has asked that either attribution be returned for his comments or, in accordance with GrokLaw's stated comments policy, they be deleted. GrokLaw has not complied. This is unfair at best; it may also have legal implicatons though John has stated that he does not intend legal action.

Following John's announcement and illumination of the consequences many other members of GrokLaw have asked that accounts be removed in protest and some demanded that their contributions remain attributed or deleted. The legal ramifications of prior account deletion with subsequent disattribution of comments do not appear to have as yet been addressed at GrokLaw.

Now it appears there are new sites springing up to expand upon the work GrokLaw has done while hoping to avoid its problems and conflicts. Only time will tell how successful they will be.

-- TWZ 2004-11-04

-------------------------------
Copyright 2004 by T. W. Zellers. This article is made available for publication under terms of the Creative Commons License, version 2 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.0).

< Raving Idiots and The Raving Lunatics who Rave for Them (9 comments) | Darlwinism: How to Destroy a Software Company (10 comments) >
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A Brief History of GrokWar | 311 comments (307 topical, 4 editorial, 7 hidden)
Re: PJ Stoops to New Low (4.71 / 7) (#239)
by JCausey (jcausey@ip-wars.net) on Sat Nov 27th, 2004 at 23:55:53 EST
(User Info) http://www.ip-wars.net
nono (and others that followed this):

Yes, I did visit the GL site today and noticed the comment left by the user N.  I posted (anonymously) the posting that nono2sco quoted.  As others have noted, I guess pointing out N.'s use of name-calling as an attempted debate technique is considered "rude".  And yes, I did sign it with my real name and an indication that I am the site owner of ip-wars.net.  I did this to retain copyright and try to establish who was writing the response.  I guess that was considered  "advertising".  I leave it to you, the readers, to decide whether PJ's characterization is reasonable.

Anyway, a few hours after posting, I noticed the comment I left had been deleted (or hidden - and since part of it was recoverable, I have to guess hidden).  However, N.'s comment, including the incorrect accusation, was still intact.  So, I sent the following e-mail:

From: Jeff Causey <jcausey@ip-wars.net>
To:     pj@groklaw.net
Cc:     [redacted per request of N.]
Subject:     Incorrect information
Date:     Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:43:42 -0500

Pamela,

Recently while viewing comments on your groklaw.net website, I ran across the following post:

http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=2004112605020534&title=But+the+feedback+ is+%26quot%3BNasty%26quot%3B&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=243253#c243265

made by a user with the username N.  Within the body of the posting, this user made the statement:

"he makes a substantial amount of income from Microsoft-based systems"

I attempted to post a correction to this statement (as I am the webmaster he is referring to) on your site, which is factually incorrect as I have not only not made "substantial" income from Microsoft-based systems, I have made NO income from Microsoft-based systems.
Unfortunately, it seems my correction has been deleted or hidden from view.

Therefore, I respectfully ask that you either, as owner of the groklaw.net web site, remove the post indicated above or post a correction as a reply to the above indicated comment.  If you choose the second option of posting a reply, I'm not interested in anything being addressed other than the factually incorrect statement "he makes a substantial amount of income from Microsoft-based systems".

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.  If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

Jeff Causey
Site owner - www.ip-wars.net
President/CZO
Zenshin Consulting, Inc.

P.S. - Please be aware of the following information regarding e-mails to this account:

I reserve the right to use any e-mail you send to me as either a testimonial of how great ip-wars.net is or me personally, or as evidence of some of the stupid stuff sent to me via e-mail. If you do not want your e-mail to be used in such a manner, don't send it!!!

If you would like to respond to a different e-mail account to protect your response, please visit www.zenshin-consulting.com and you can find one there.

As you can see, the posting of the correction was at my request and I appreciate her taking care of that.  Again, her choice as to how to portray the rest of my post says more about her than it does about me.

Jeff

Re: A Brief History of GrokWar (4.63 / 19) (#102)
by AllParadox on Tue Nov 23rd, 2004 at 01:26:41 EST
(User Info)
My own poor perspective.

Grokwar started well before October, 2004.  

I cannot now recall how long ago it started, but it began while I was still using my first handle on Groklaw -- a few months after the beginning of the new year for 2004.

At that time, a number of trolls targeted Groklaw.  The number of malicious anonymous posts was simply astounding.  A number of times, I can recall going to the Groklaw site and reading posts, and coming across very recent posts that contained clearly offensive text (obscenities, threats, all caps, nasty insults, irrelevant flame bait).  When I did a refresh, the offensive posts were gone.  If my experiences were a representative sample, then there had to have been far more posts deleted than were allowed to remain, by a factor of three or more.

Some of the malicious posts were simply threatening, and in particular to P.J. and her friends that helped her maintain her site.  (I am not in that number.)  P.J. does not discuss it much, but it had to be unsettling.  My own experience is that 99.5% of the idiots that make such threats are toothless, and are scared of their own shadows.  The other .5% will kill you, without a second thought.  Sane people respect all death threats.

P.J. comes to Groklaw with the background of a paralegal.  She was not used to the rough-and-tumble of slashdot, to the rough-and-tumble of concentrated geeks.  We tend to abrupt, harsh criticism, and gross insensitivity to the feelings of others.  

P.J. was, and is, sensitive to her audience.  She knows, from several sources, that Groklaw information was "leaking" into the legal process, that if not judges, then their clerks or secretaries or baliffs, or friends, as well as the attornies or people in their offices, were reading Groklaw and taking the information back into judicial chambers.  

P.J. knows enough to understand that she is juggling dynamite here, dynamite primed with blasting caps.  Brief, nasty, unfounded criticisms of judges could do more harm than all of the rest of the good of Groklaw, put together.

My own biased opinion is that most trolls are paid disturbers, hired by groups like Microsoft and TSG for the purpose of disrupting civil discussions of which they do not approve.  I have seen them destroy discussions on Yahoo message boards under other companies.

P.J. and her friends developed tactics to deal with the attacks.  One tactic was the "hidden" deletion.  For a long time, it was very effective against the trolls.  Apparently, they never considered the possiblity that the post they could read was not visible to all other readers.  After a while, when the troll found that his flamebait posts were apparently drawing no comments, he would quit posting, at least under that username.  I think I can recognize some of them by the style of their writing, and they would come back, time and again, under new names, or post anonymously.  There is a Jeff M. whose style is quite distinctive.

The "hidden deletion" was effective because malicious posters tend to do the same thing over and over again.  Once a poster was identified as a likely troll, it was easier to delete the posts.

P.J. and the other Groklaw maintainer folks fought with the trolls all Spring and Summer.

When P.J. announced that she was working for OSRM, the floodgates opened.  It was a golden opportunity for the trolls to attack.  If anything, the troll posts during that time were worse than what came before.  

The hard part was that troll posts were couched in "freedom" language.  I have seen this before.  The trolls' goal is to shut down the conversations, shut down the flow of information, censor the people who are making a difference.  They being by complaining about "censorship".  They claim that if the site allows posts, then it is a public forum, and any moderation is "censorship".  Most forums do not know how to handle the dishonest, disingenuous charges, and sometimes fold under the weight of posts they will no longer reject.  

At the same time, trolls were making very nasty personal attacks on P.J., and in high volume.  I really think that if there had only been a few of them, and they had been much more politely couched, then P.J. would have allowed the whole OSRM thing to be discussed and everyone could have moved on.

Unfortunately, there were a number of active Groklaw posters and supporters that had real (as opposed to "purchased") concerns about the OSRM thing.  They received the same curt treatment as the trolls.  This made some of them angry, and they responded angrily, being completely unaware of the ongoing Troll War.  I suspect that, in their anger, and being geeks like me, they were less than circumspect in their postings about how they were being treated.  That anger, and lack of circumspection, earned them the label "troll" from the Groklaw maintainers.  

It was around this time that a number of the regular Groklaw posters migrated to the Yahoo! SCOX board, those who felt maligned by P.J.

This, then, was the stage that had been set, with deep feelings of anger and mistrust on both sides, around the beginning of October,2004.
I have retired as an attorney. This is not legal advice, just my own opinion. If you need legal advice, pay a licensed attorney for it.

  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by mikey, 11/23/2004 01:54:43 EST (4.40 / 15)
    • Groklaw getting into judicial chambers by AllParadox, 11/23/2004 23:59:23 EST (4.12 / 8)
      • Re: Groklaw getting into judicial chambers by nono2sco, 11/24/2004 11:13:38 EST (3.85 / 7)
      • Re: Groklaw getting into judicial chambers by br3n, 11/24/2004 00:36:07 EST (3.57 / 7)
        • Re: Groklaw getting into judicial chambers by AllParadox, 11/24/2004 01:01:56 EST (4.14 / 7)
          • Re: Groklaw getting into judicial chambers by warmcat, 11/24/2004 08:03:40 EST (4.50 / 8)
            • No Groklaw Backups by AllParadox, 11/26/2004 22:18:12 EST (4.36 / 11)
              • Groklaw Policy Issues by JohnGabriel, 11/27/2004 15:39:48 EST (4.61 / 13)
              • Posting liability on GrokLaw by ColonelZen, 11/27/2004 17:32:27 EST (4.50 / 10)
                • Re: Posting liability on GrokLaw by ColonelZen, 11/27/2004 17:36:19 EST (3.00 / 6)
              • Re: No Groklaw Backups by mikey, 11/26/2004 23:26:41 EST (4.44 / 9)
                • Re: No Groklaw Backups by AllParadox, 11/27/2004 01:54:12 EST (3.90 / 10)
                  • Re: No Groklaw Backups by mikey, 11/27/2004 14:23:49 EST (4.57 / 7)
                  • Re: No Groklaw Backups by br3n, 11/27/2004 06:42:41 EST (4.00 / 11)
              • Re: No Groklaw Backups by pgk, 11/27/2004 04:38:10 EST (4.33 / 12)
              • Re: No Groklaw Backups by total insanity, 11/27/2004 11:13:34 EST (4.22 / 9)
              • Re: No Groklaw Backups by nono2sco, 11/27/2004 01:13:49 EST (4.10 / 10)
              • Re: No Groklaw Backups by ColonelZen, 11/27/2004 14:27:03 EST (3.80 / 10)
                • And so we come full circle... by Potential Recruit, 11/27/2004 15:26:49 EST (2.08 / 12)
                  • Re: And so we come full circle... by ColonelZen, 11/27/2004 15:46:00 EST (4.00 / 10)
                  • Re: And so we come full circle... by nono2sco, 11/27/2004 16:38:41 EST (3.50 / 6)
              • Re: No Groklaw Backups by tintak, 11/27/2004 08:08:13 EST (3.75 / 12)
            • Googlebots by AllParadox, 11/25/2004 01:41:44 EST (4.00 / 11)
              • Re: FOSS principles more important than CEOs by warmcat, 11/25/2004 06:37:36 EST (5.00 / 17)
                • Re: FOSS principles more important than CEOs by wallybass, 11/25/2004 17:46:21 EST (3.90 / 11)
              • Re: Googlebots by pgk, 11/25/2004 13:19:36 EST (4.33 / 12)
                • Re: Googlebots by mikey, 11/25/2004 13:31:55 EST (3.60 / 10)
                  • Re: Googlebots by nono2sco, 11/25/2004 14:03:22 EST (3.44 / 9)
                    • Re: Googlebots by mikey, 11/25/2004 14:53:53 EST (3.33 / 6)
                      • Re: Googlebots by nono2sco, 11/25/2004 15:23:13 EST (3.37 / 8)
                        • Re: Googlebots by tomas, 12/01/2004 18:24:51 EST (3.71 / 7)
                • Re: Googlebots Comments by AllParadox, 11/26/2004 20:33:19 EST (3.50 / 12)
                  • Re: Googlebots Comments by Potential Recruit, 11/28/2004 13:52:17 EST (3.00 / 7)
                    • Re: Googlebots Comments by ColonelZen, 11/28/2004 17:02:30 EST (3.11 / 9)
                      • Re: Googlebots Comments by Potential Recruit, 11/28/2004 18:35:36 EST (2.37 / 8)
                        • Re: Googlebots Comments by ColonelZen, 11/28/2004 21:27:53 EST (3.50 / 4)
                    • Re: Googlebots Comments by Potential Recruit, 11/28/2004 15:31:27 EST (2.00 / 8)
                      • Re: Googlebots Comments by nono2sco, 11/28/2004 16:11:36 EST (3.28 / 7)
              • Re: Googlebots by mikey, 11/25/2004 02:32:33 EST (4.18 / 11)
                • Re: Googlebots by pgk, 11/25/2004 07:50:09 EST (4.22 / 9)
              • Re: Googlebots by nono2sco, 11/25/2004 02:12:23 EST (3.88 / 9)
          • Re: Groklaw getting into judicial chambers by br3n, 11/24/2004 11:31:32 EST (3.75 / 4)
            • Re: Groklaw getting into judicial chambers by mikey, 11/24/2004 11:33:09 EST (none / 2)
              • Re: Groklaw getting into judicial chambers by br3n, 11/24/2004 11:49:38 EST (none / 2)
                • Re: Groklaw getting into judicial chambers by nono2sco, 11/24/2004 11:51:43 EST (none / 1)
        • Re: Groklaw getting into judicial chambers by mikey, 11/24/2004 01:18:04 EST (4.00 / 5)
    • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by bruce s, 11/27/2004 06:49:54 EST (3.57 / 7)
      • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by nono2sco, 11/27/2004 11:16:51 EST (4.25 / 8)
      • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by br3n, 11/27/2004 07:00:33 EST (3.80 / 5)
    • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by eightninefortynine, 11/23/2004 06:19:31 EST (3.37 / 8)
  • I don't believe you. by wallybass, 11/23/2004 15:32:11 EST (4.36 / 11)
    • How do I rate ... by ColonelZen, 11/23/2004 17:42:54 EST (3.33 / 9)
      • Re: How do I rate ... by wallybass, 11/23/2004 19:46:18 EST (3.42 / 7)
        • Re: How do I rate ... by nono2sco, 11/23/2004 19:55:22 EST (3.50 / 6)
          • Re: How do I rate ... by wallybass, 11/23/2004 20:03:22 EST (3.00 / 7)
            • Re: How do I rate ... by ColonelZen, 11/23/2004 21:33:49 EST (4.12 / 8)
              • I think your ratings approach is quite flawed by wallybass, 11/25/2004 16:28:27 EST (4.30 / 10)
                • Re: I think your ratings approach is quite flawed by nono2sco, 11/25/2004 17:09:45 EST (none / 2)
                  • which post? by wallybass, 11/25/2004 18:00:42 EST (3.00 / 4)
                    • Re: which post? by nono2sco, 11/25/2004 18:19:59 EST (none / 2)
              • Re: How do I rate ... by br3n, 11/23/2004 21:51:51 EST (3.83 / 6)
            • Re: How do I rate ... by nono2sco, 11/23/2004 22:12:32 EST (3.00 / 3)
        • Re: How do I rate ... by ColonelZen, 11/23/2004 20:59:57 EST (3.00 / 3)
      • Re: How do I rate ... by nono2sco, 11/23/2004 18:30:53 EST (3.25 / 8)
  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by sphealey, 11/23/2004 08:23:28 EST (4.21 / 14)
    • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by AllParadox, 11/23/2004 15:19:51 EST (3.80 / 10)
      • A Few PJ Quotes by nono2sco, 11/23/2004 17:26:04 EST (4.00 / 7)
      • Very nice and well-written by sphealey, 11/23/2004 16:10:01 EST (3.71 / 7)
        • Re: Very nice and well-written by ColonelZen, 11/23/2004 16:58:03 EST (3.71 / 7)
        • Answering the serious questions by AllParadox, 11/23/2004 22:37:42 EST (3.71 / 7)
  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by ColonelZen, 11/23/2004 14:16:54 EST (4.11 / 9)
    • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by AllParadox, 11/24/2004 00:09:53 EST (3.16 / 6)
  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by Al Petrofsky, 11/23/2004 05:31:05 EST (4.00 / 16)
    • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by AllParadox, 11/23/2004 15:48:36 EST (3.90 / 11)
      • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by Al Petrofsky, 11/23/2004 20:00:13 EST (4.50 / 10)
        • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by AllParadox, 11/23/2004 23:14:09 EST (4.40 / 10)
          • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by FrogstarRobot, 11/27/2004 23:36:47 EST (4.54 / 11)
          • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by mikey, 11/24/2004 00:13:52 EST (4.25 / 8)
          • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by Al Petrofsky, 11/24/2004 01:24:10 EST (4.22 / 9)
          • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by br3n, 11/23/2004 23:21:00 EST (2.42 / 7)
            • Appropriate behavior by AllParadox, 11/23/2004 23:41:30 EST (4.00 / 7)
              • Re: Appropriate behavior by wallybass, 11/26/2004 01:59:20 EST (3.90 / 11)
                • Re: Appropriate behavior by AllParadox, 11/26/2004 02:08:33 EST (3.00 / 7)
                  • Thanks for the clarification. Problems remain by wallybass, 11/26/2004 03:45:27 EST (4.20 / 10)
                    • Re: Thanks for the clarification. Problems remain by nono2sco, 11/26/2004 10:46:52 EST (3.85 / 7)
                  • Re: Appropriate behavior by br3n, 11/26/2004 08:57:06 EST (3.66 / 6)
                    • Re: Appropriate behavior by mikey, 11/26/2004 10:12:39 EST (4.00 / 7)
                      • Re: Appropriate behavior by nono2sco, 11/26/2004 10:50:58 EST (3.71 / 7)
                    • Re: Appropriate behavior by Potential Recruit, 11/26/2004 09:38:33 EST (1.55 / 9)
                      • I find your reply reassuring by wallybass, 11/26/2004 16:58:38 EST (4.00 / 9)
                        • Re: I find your reply reassuring by br3n, 11/26/2004 17:24:29 EST (3.42 / 7)
                          • Re: I find your reply reassuring by JCausey, 11/26/2004 21:12:50 EST (4.14 / 7)
                            • Re: I find your reply reassuring by br3n, 11/26/2004 21:32:46 EST (3.50 / 4)
                      • Re: Appropriate behavior by nono2sco, 11/26/2004 10:47:47 EST (3.60 / 5)
                      • Re: Appropriate behavior by br3n, 11/26/2004 10:34:55 EST (3.50 / 6)
              • Re: Appropriate behavior by mikey, 11/24/2004 00:38:26 EST (3.75 / 4)
              • Re: Appropriate behavior by br3n, 11/23/2004 23:50:54 EST (3.66 / 6)
                • Re: Appropriate behavior by AllParadox, 11/24/2004 00:46:26 EST (4.00 / 6)
                  • Re: Inappropriate excuses by warmcat, 12/03/2004 14:26:56 EST (4.00 / 9)
                  • Re: Appropriate behavior by br3n, 11/24/2004 11:42:41 EST (3.25 / 4)
                  • Re: Appropriate behavior by mikey, 11/24/2004 00:59:31 EST (3.00 / 4)
                  • Re: Appropriate behavior by nono2sco, 11/24/2004 01:06:17 EST (none / 2)
              • Re: Appropriate behavior by nono2sco, 11/23/2004 23:55:33 EST (3.66 / 6)
      • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by mikey, 11/23/2004 16:52:48 EST (4.33 / 9)
        • No such thing as internet anonymity by AllParadox, 11/23/2004 23:22:55 EST (3.66 / 6)
          • Re: No such thing as internet anonymity by mikey, 11/23/2004 23:55:52 EST (3.75 / 4)
            • Re: No such thing as internet anonymity by AllParadox, 11/24/2004 00:23:28 EST (2.66 / 3)
          • Re: No such thing as internet anonymity by mikey, 11/24/2004 01:49:09 EST (none / 2)
  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by br3n, 11/23/2004 01:50:33 EST (3.92 / 13)
  • PJ And OSRM by daveventura, 11/23/2004 02:49:09 EST (3.83 / 12)
  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by kinrite, 11/23/2004 09:02:27 EST (3.70 / 10)
  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by nono2sco, 11/23/2004 02:32:49 EST (3.30 / 10)
  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by AllParadox, 11/23/2004 15:53:34 EST (3.00 / 4)
    • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by mrbuttle, 11/23/2004 19:55:33 EST (3.80 / 5)
PJ Stoops to New Low (4.33 / 6) (#240)
by nono2sco on Sun Nov 28th, 2004 at 00:09:07 EST
(User Info)
During a recent exchange of messages on GrokLaw Jeff Causey posted the following message on GrokLaw.

    But the feedback is "Nasty"
    Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, November 27 2004 @ 01:53 PM EST

    N.,

    You really should be more careful what you believe and what you post.

    >>he makes a substantial amount of income from Microsoft-based
    systems<<

    This is absolutely false. I make no income from the recommendation, sale, or maintenance of MS based systems. I'm not sure whether there is any other way to make income from MS-based systems, but if there is, I don't make any from it.

    >>is a willing fool<<

    Well, name-calling is always an effective debate technique.

    Jeff Causey
    Site owner - www.ip-wars.net


Subsequently this message was edited by PJ, removing Jeff's name and title.

    "But the feedback is "Nasty"
    Authored by: PJ on Saturday, November 27 2004 @ 07:28 PM EST
    This is the remains of a comment by Jeff Causey. The rest was rude and included advertising, but while I deleted it, I am preserving his defense of his Microsoft work. He wrote this:

        N.,

        You really should be more careful what you believe and what you post.

        >>he makes a substantial amount of income from Microsoft-based systems This is absolutely false. I make no income from the recommendation, sale, or maintenance of MS based systems. I'm not sure whether there is any other way to make income from MS-based systems, but if there is, I don't make any from it."

Notice that she runs N's and Jeff's messages together.

So that leaves the rude and advertising parts...

    ">>is a willing fool<<

    Well, name-calling is always an effective debate technique.

    Jeff Causey
    Site owner - www.ip-wars.net"


The original post by N was can be seen at GrokLaw
www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=2004112605020534&type=article&title=But+the +feedback+is+%26quot%3BNasty%26quot%3B&pid=243253

-
-
____ "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" -- Lord Acton

PJ Stoops To A New Low (4.25 / 8) (#241)
by JCausey (jcausey@ip-wars.net) on Sun Nov 28th, 2004 at 00:23:21 EST
(User Info) http://www.ip-wars.net
The following is a redacted version of post #236 on this article by nono2sco.  Subsequent to the posting, I received notice (though not directly from the person alleging copyright infringement), that inclusion of all of N.'s comments from Groklaw was a violation of N.'s copyright on his post.  Although I believe it would be necessary for N. to actually contact me regarding the possible infringement, I am going to proceed proactively in removing the potential copyright violation.  If you'd like to read the entire posting by N., please visit the Groklaw site.  As is noted in this site's policy, one of the few instances in which material may be deleted is when a copyright violation may occur.

*****************
During a recent exchange of messages on GrokLaw Jeff Causey posted the following message on GrokLaw.

But the feedback is "Nasty"
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, November 27 2004 @ 01:53 PM EST
N.,

You really should be more careful what you believe and what you post.

>>he makes a substantial amount of income from Microsoft-based systems<<

This is absolutely false. I make no income from the recommendation, sale, or maintenance of MS based systems. I'm not sure whether there is any other way to make income from MS-based systems, but if there is, I don't make any from it.

>>is a willing fool<<

Well, name-calling is always an effective debate technique.

Jeff Causey
Site owner - www.ip-wars.net

Subsequently this message was edited by PJ, removing Jeff's name and title.
"But the feedback is "Nasty"
Authored by: PJ on Saturday, November 27 2004 @ 07:28 PM EST
This is the remains of a comment by Jeff Causey. The rest was rude and included advertising, but while I deleted it, I am preserving his defense of his Microsoft work. He wrote this:

        N.,

        You really should be more careful what you believe and what you post.

        >>he makes a substantial amount of income from Microsoft-based systems This is absolutely false. I make no income from the recommendation, sale, or maintenance of MS based systems. I'm not sure whether there is any other way to make income from MS-based systems, but if there is, I don't make any from it."

Notice that she runs N's and Jeff's messages together.

So that leaves the rude and advertising parts...

">>is a willing fool<<

Well, name-calling is always an effective debate technique.

Jeff Causey
Site owner - www.ip-wars.net"

The original post by N was ...
[redacted]
either the webmaster has an agenda (he makes a substantial amount of income from Microsoft-based systems, so you could read in a distinct conflict of interest there), or is a willing fool being given ideas by people he thinks are his comrades.

[redacted]

I guess PJ was worried that Jeff's title was shameless advertising and that "Well, name-calling is always an effective debate technique." might offend those on GrokLaw with sensitive constitutions.

I am hoping that eventually the posters on GrokLaw will wake up and realize they are not getting the whole story.
-
-
__ "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" -- Lord Acton

  • Re: PJ Stoops To A New Low by JCausey, 11/28/2004 00:28:43 EST (4.37 / 8)
    • Re: PJ Stoops To A New Low by br3n, 11/28/2004 07:48:54 EST (3.50 / 6)
      • Re: PJ Stoops To A New Low by mrbuttle, 11/28/2004 09:41:36 EST (3.85 / 7)
        • Re: PJ Stoops To A New Low by total insanity, 11/28/2004 14:07:18 EST (4.00 / 3)
          • Re: PJ Stoops To A New Low by br3n, 11/28/2004 15:39:53 EST (3.25 / 4)
        • Re: PJ Stoops To A New Low by br3n, 11/28/2004 09:46:08 EST (3.16 / 6)
    • Re: Jeff Stoops To A New Low by Potential Recruit, 11/30/2004 01:24:52 EST (1.55 / 9)
      • Re: Jeff Stoops To A New Low by JCausey, 11/30/2004 10:12:31 EST (4.42 / 7)
      • Re: Jeff Stoops To A New Low by nono2sco, 11/30/2004 02:07:27 EST (3.16 / 6)
  • More Apparent Deletions... by nono2sco, 11/28/2004 02:51:09 EST (4.00 / 6)
  • I'm in the "Jeff stoops to new low" camp by wallybass, 12/01/2004 22:32:33 EST (2.22 / 9)
    • Re: I'm in the "Jeff stoops to new low" by JCausey, 12/01/2004 23:01:30 EST (4.44 / 9)
      • Re: I'm in the "Jeff stoops to new low" by wallybass, 12/02/2004 14:51:53 EST (2.33 / 9)
        • Re: I'm in the "Jeff stoops to new low" by JCausey, 12/02/2004 19:20:00 EST (4.83 / 6)
    • Re: I'm in the "Jeff stoops to new low" by nono2sco, 12/01/2004 23:01:56 EST (3.85 / 7)
      • Re: I'm in the "Jeff stoops to new low" by wallybass, 12/02/2004 15:00:09 EST (3.33 / 9)
        • Re: I'm in the "Jeff stoops to new low" by nono2sco, 12/02/2004 16:31:33 EST (4.66 / 6)
          • Re: I'm in the "Jeff stoops to new low" by codswallet, 12/03/2004 20:01:42 EST (3.77 / 9)
            • Re: I'm in the "Jeff stoops to new low" by nono2sco, 12/03/2004 20:13:06 EST (3.33 / 6)
        • Why? by ColonelZen, 12/02/2004 16:44:41 EST (3.60 / 5)
          • Re: Why? - side thread by wallybass, 12/02/2004 20:13:19 EST (3.50 / 6)
            • Re: Why? - side thread by ColonelZen, 12/02/2004 21:59:06 EST (4.50 / 6)
              • Re: Why? - side thread by nono2sco, 12/03/2004 12:19:02 EST (3.60 / 5)
                • Re: Why? - side thread by ColonelZen, 12/03/2004 15:38:29 EST (3.60 / 5)
                  • Re: Why? - side thread by nono2sco, 12/03/2004 15:57:36 EST (3.75 / 4)
              • Re: Why? - side thread by wallybass, 12/03/2004 00:54:04 EST (3.50 / 8)
                • Re: Why? - side thread by JCausey, 12/03/2004 08:36:55 EST (3.66 / 6)
                  • Re: Why? - side thread by wallybass, 12/03/2004 12:26:50 EST (3.50 / 6)
                • Re: Why? - side thread by ColonelZen, 12/03/2004 13:32:22 EST (3.50 / 4)
                  • Re: Why? - side thread by wallybass, 12/03/2004 14:06:51 EST (3.33 / 6)
            • Re: Why? - side thread by codswallet, 12/03/2004 20:17:02 EST (3.33 / 6)
            • dictionary pitfalls by codswallet, 12/03/2004 20:55:06 EST (3.20 / 5)
              • Re: dictionary pitfalls by nono2sco, 12/03/2004 21:03:37 EST (3.00 / 4)
              • Re: dictionary pitfalls by ColonelZen, 12/03/2004 22:04:52 EST (3.00 / 5)
    • moderation failure by codswallet, 12/03/2004 18:44:33 EST (3.50 / 6)
      • Re: moderation failure by nono2sco, 12/03/2004 19:13:20 EST (3.33 / 6)
      • Re: moderation failure by pgk, 12/03/2004 18:52:26 EST (3.00 / 5)
        • Re: moderation failure by wallybass, 12/04/2004 00:26:30 EST (3.83 / 6)
          • Re: moderation failure by nono2sco, 12/04/2004 00:42:26 EST (3.00 / 4)
        • definition failure by codswallet, 12/04/2004 04:14:58 EST (3.00 / 6)
          • Re: definition failure by nono2sco, 12/04/2004 10:30:56 EST (3.75 / 4)
Followup: A Brief History of GrokWar (4.00 / 6) (#305)
by ColonelZen (tzellers lieth within pobox of thy kingdom com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2005 at 15:55:27 EST
(User Info)
Following A Brief History of Growkwar
by: ColonelZen
Long-Term Sentiment: Strong Sell     07/23/05 03:53 pm
Msg: 284042 of 284042

While some people were naturally annoyed about their perception of the inequities of the deletion process I don't think it was ever so big an issue as some made it out to be.

I gather from some comments posted here that the blind deletion issue, aka "sandboxing" is still going on.

I also heard that very early this year changes were made so that attribution no longer disappears when an account is locked or deleted, but as far as I know attribution has not been restored for past deletees. It's probably moot now unless someone were planning on writing a book and needed clear acknowledgment of their ownership of their postings - not likely but remotely possible.

Again from recent posts PJ still seems to have certain attitudes and viewpoints which some here would find ... less than overwhelmingly logical. But by now we should all know that.

Basically while very much acknowledging the past value of GL in enlightening the business and trade press to the weaknesses of SCOX's arguments and legal positions, IMO it's days of paramount significance are gone.

GL still is a valued source of info and commentary for many, of course, but SCOX is dead, simply waiting to be embalmed by the Nazgul under Kimball's eye. Often news and more and more detailed (if harder to wade through) commentary and analysis of any news happens here (Yahoo SCOX board) than at GL.

The only reason for this post is that I pointed you to my article and decided to write this recap of recent events to post as a comment to the article, just in case anyone stumbles across it.

-- TWZ


  • Meta rating: Just curious nono by ColonelZen, 07/24/2005 11:26:28 EST (4.00 / 3)
    • Re: Meta rating: Just curious nono by nono2sco, 07/26/2005 02:45:57 EST (3.25 / 4)
Suggestions for the rating system tags (3.80 / 5) (#99)
by mikey (mikey at badpenguins dot com) on Tue Nov 16th, 2004 at 10:56:25 EST
(User Info) http://www.ip-wars.net
Perhaps we ought to consider changing the descriptions of the rating system.  Something that more closely resembles the site policy of deleting spam, yet allows people to filter out abusive or offensive posts (trolling).  Something along the lines of:

0 Spam Like
1 Abusive/Offensive
2 Off Topic/Irrelevant
3 On Topic/Relevant
4 Thought Provoking
5 Well Written/Expressed


---
DISCLAIMER:
IANAL, may have no idea what the heck I am talking about, yadda yadda yadda.

  • Ignore this! by mikey, 11/16/2004 11:06:59 EST (none / 1)
Re: PJ Stoops to New Low (3.60 / 5) (#237)
by br3n on Sat Nov 27th, 2004 at 22:40:27 EST
(User Info)
you know as much as PJ has posted if she wants to get down this dirty she could really be hung out to dry.
would not be hard at all to copy and paste fair usage
wanna play PJ?

br3n
Re: A Brief History of GrokWar (3.57 / 14) (#14)
by warmcat on Fri Nov 5th, 2004 at 09:58:02 EST
(User Info) http://yah.warmcat.com
Somewhat biased, but I thought it was an good read by the Colonel.

The driver for contacting her in the first place was the takeup of the SCOX RSS (which is still  popular).  An RSS for Grok which included the toplevel comment text, like the SCOX one would have been interesting.

PJ reacted to my suggestion of just monitoring comment metadata, but not the comment text, by prohibiting "deep linking", a prohibition still in force AFAIK.  This would disallow the ability for the served RSS to link back into the thread to read the children, thus making it pointless.  I can only assume from the timing the license change was done to deliberately stymie what was being discussed.

This "Deep Linking" prohibition remains unique in allegedly pro-FOSS sites AFAIK and is something more often associated with proprietary and commercial sites.

  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by Potential Recruit, 11/12/2004 15:34:01 EST (4.63 / 11)
    • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by br3n, 11/12/2004 21:35:10 EST (4.28 / 7)
Pimply Faced Children? (3.33 / 3) (#136)
by br3n on Tue Nov 23rd, 2004 at 23:24:53 EST
(User Info)
are any here?
this seems to be the mind set that dictates how people talk to us.it is insulting and sure to infuriate more mad anger.
i know it does for me.
personally i no longer have much respect for a lot of people now on groklaw.they have had their minds contaminated with proprietary ways .it has gotten invasive.it is the biggest danger to F/OSS there is

br3n
Re: A Brief History of GrokWar (3.28 / 7) (#40)
by pgk (PG_King zzzzzzz (yahoo.com)) on Fri Nov 5th, 2004 at 11:16:40 EST
(User Info)
Sorry, to add to my other comment:

Many boards exist which post far far worse, Slashdot for instance.. You aren't legally liable for anyone elses post by posting a comment or article on this site, just your own.

The only potential liability is the site owner.

  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by DirtyDriver, 11/07/2004 09:10:09 EST (3.60 / 5)
    • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by tomas, 11/23/2004 02:56:43 EST (4.11 / 9)
Re: A Brief History of GrokWar (3.00 / 2) (#65)
by ColonelZen (tzellers lieth within pobox of thy kingdom com) on Fri Nov 5th, 2004 at 23:44:25 EST
(User Info)
Damn, I do that every time I use that word.

Just to get even I'm rating your post a troll, as SPELLING TROLL :-)

(of course my parent post to yours is technically a troll as well!)

-- TWZ

  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by heimdal31, 11/05/2004 23:49:16 EST (4.00 / 3)
    • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by ColonelZen, 11/06/2004 00:45:57 EST (3.50 / 2)
    • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by ColonelZen, 11/06/2004 00:13:10 EST (3.00 / 3)
Just Curious (2.87 / 8) (#13)
by saferinnumbers (safer_in_numbers@yahoo.com) on Fri Nov 5th, 2004 at 09:51:29 EST
(User Info)
Can I ask a quick question?

Is anyone who is maintaining or involved in the operation of this site or the management of its content currently employed in the legal profession?

Thanks!
Mindy

  • Re: Just Curious by JCausey, 11/05/2004 10:24:13 EST (3.54 / 11)
  • Re: Just Curious by heimdal31, 11/05/2004 10:00:20 EST (2.83 / 6)
    • Re: Just Curious by Potential Recruit, 11/05/2004 10:05:45 EST (2.14 / 7)
      • Re: Just Curious by JohnGabriel, 11/06/2004 01:16:48 EST (3.37 / 8)
      • Re: Just Curious by pgk, 11/05/2004 10:17:29 EST (3.22 / 9)
      • Re: Just Curious by Potential Recruit, 11/05/2004 10:07:50 EST (3.14 / 7)
        • Re: Just Curious by br3n, 11/07/2004 19:44:32 EST (4.00 / 5)
        • Re: Just Curious by heimdal31, 11/05/2004 10:20:45 EST (3.53 / 15)
          • Re: Just Curious by pgk, 11/05/2004 10:29:33 EST (3.00 / 8)
            • Re: Just Curious by saferinnumbers, 11/05/2004 10:40:28 EST (3.11 / 9)
              • Re: Just Curious by mikey, 11/05/2004 14:48:19 EST (3.83 / 6)
              • Re: Just Curious by pgk, 11/05/2004 10:44:19 EST (2.71 / 7)
                • Re: Just Curious by saferinnumbers, 11/05/2004 11:11:35 EST (2.50 / 8)
                  • Re: Just Curious by JCausey, 11/05/2004 16:05:35 EST (4.38 / 13)
                    • Re: Just Curious by pgk, 11/05/2004 16:17:22 EST (3.87 / 8)
                    • Re: Just Curious - liability by Potential Recruit, 11/06/2004 19:48:13 EST (3.83 / 6)
                  • A proposal by mikey, 11/06/2004 10:37:04 EST (4.20 / 10)
                    • Re: A proposal by heimdal31, 11/06/2004 11:42:01 EST (3.87 / 8)
                      • Re: A proposal by JohnGabriel, 11/14/2004 04:37:56 EST (3.80 / 5)
                      • Re: A proposal - ignorance of the law? by codswallet, 11/16/2004 05:11:51 EST (3.80 / 5)
                      • Re: A proposal by mikey, 11/07/2004 15:42:13 EST (3.50 / 4)
                  • Re: Just Curious by JohnGabriel, 11/14/2004 04:32:40 EST (4.00 / 7)
                  • Re: Just Curious by heimdal31, 11/05/2004 11:30:14 EST (3.50 / 8)
                  • Re: Just Curious by pgk, 11/05/2004 11:13:26 EST (3.25 / 8)
                  • Re: Just Curious by ColonelZen, 11/05/2004 11:21:43 EST (3.00 / 8)
                    • Re: Just Curious by Potential Recruit, 11/05/2004 11:26:51 EST (3.28 / 7)
                      • Re: Just Curious by ruidh, 11/05/2004 12:54:00 EST (3.90 / 10)
                        • Re: Just Curious by heimdal31, 11/05/2004 13:08:16 EST (3.90 / 11)
                        • Apologies to ruidh by heimdal31, 11/05/2004 14:19:21 EST (3.50 / 6)
                          • Scoop Ratings by ruidh, 11/06/2004 08:17:56 EST (3.42 / 7)
                            • Re: Scoop Ratings by codswallet, 11/16/2004 05:34:56 EST (4.33 / 3)
                            • Re: Scoop Ratings by groendraak, 11/07/2004 14:09:40 EST (3.85 / 7)
                              • Re: Scoop Ratings by heimdal31, 11/07/2004 14:14:40 EST (4.00 / 7)
                                • Re: Scoop Ratings by groendraak, 11/07/2004 14:32:07 EST (3.80 / 5)
                                  • Re: Scoop Ratings by br3n, 11/07/2004 16:42:01 EST (4.00 / 5)
                              • Ratings by pgk, 11/07/2004 14:33:19 EST (3.50 / 4)
                                • Re: Ratings by groendraak, 11/07/2004 14:47:31 EST (4.00 / 3)
                      • Re: Just Curious by heimdal31, 11/05/2004 11:36:02 EST (3.77 / 9)
                    • Re: Just Curious by saferinnumbers, 11/05/2004 12:53:40 EST (1.60 / 5)
                      • Re: Just Curious by heimdal31, 11/05/2004 13:22:47 EST (3.90 / 10)
                      • Re: Just Curious by ColonelZen, 11/05/2004 22:49:14 EST (3.75 / 12)
                        • Re: Just Curious by shanson29, 11/16/2004 15:35:18 EST (3.00 / 3)
                        • Re: Just Curious by heimdal31, 11/05/2004 23:35:10 EST (2.00 / 3)
                          • Re: Just Curious by ColonelZen, 11/05/2004 23:50:48 EST (2.33 / 3)
                  • Re: Just Curious by mikey, 11/05/2004 15:37:43 EST (3.00 / 5)
              • Re: Just Curious by rex007can, 11/05/2004 10:56:39 EST (2.66 / 9)
        • Re: Just Curious by ColonelZen, 11/05/2004 10:48:17 EST (3.12 / 8)
      • Re: Just Curious by rex007can, 11/05/2004 10:49:40 EST (2.83 / 12)
        • Re: Just Curious by Potential Recruit, 11/05/2004 10:55:53 EST (3.00 / 7)
          • Re: Just Curious by rex007can, 11/05/2004 10:58:34 EST (2.57 / 7)
            • Re: Just Curious by Potential Recruit, 11/05/2004 11:07:00 EST (3.16 / 6)
              • Re: Just Curious by rex007can, 11/05/2004 11:20:20 EST (3.45 / 11)
Re: A Brief History of GrokWar (2.61 / 13) (#4)
by Potential Recruit on Fri Nov 5th, 2004 at 08:35:02 EST
It's strange how people attack PJ (and indirectly GrokLaw) for her employment at OSRM, and yet you never hear any criticism about Bruce Perens also working for them.

Not trying to undermine Groklaw at all, are you?


  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by wallybass, 11/13/2004 01:52:13 EST (4.22 / 9)
    • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by mikey, 11/13/2004 10:49:25 EST (4.00 / 7)
    • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by JohnGabriel, 11/14/2004 04:10:33 EST (4.00 / 6)
    • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by br3n, 11/13/2004 07:21:10 EST (3.60 / 5)
  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by mikey, 11/05/2004 16:26:22 EST (3.85 / 7)
  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by ColonelZen, 11/05/2004 08:43:38 EST (3.57 / 7)
  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by rex007can, 11/05/2004 09:14:15 EST (3.42 / 14)
  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by shanson29, 11/05/2004 08:40:51 EST (3.00 / 7)
    • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by Potential Recruit, 11/05/2004 10:14:17 EST (3.00 / 9)
      • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by rex007can, 11/05/2004 10:26:07 EST (3.20 / 10)
      • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by rex007can, 11/05/2004 10:30:49 EST (2.71 / 7)
        • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by Potential Recruit, 11/05/2004 10:44:41 EST (3.12 / 8)
          • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by heimdal31, 11/05/2004 10:53:46 EST (3.42 / 7)
            • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by Potential Recruit, 11/05/2004 11:01:35 EST (3.50 / 8)
              • OSRM and conflict of interest by sphealey, 11/05/2004 11:49:36 EST (2.91 / 12)
                • A 1 from br3n? by sphealey, 11/05/2004 16:44:18 EST (3.20 / 5)
                  • Re: A 1 from br3n? by heimdal31, 11/05/2004 17:07:18 EST (4.16 / 6)
                    • Re: A 1 from br3n? by br3n, 11/05/2004 23:02:00 EST (3.25 / 4)
              • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by rex007can, 11/05/2004 11:13:04 EST (2.88 / 9)
                • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by Potential Recruit, 11/05/2004 11:18:01 EST (3.00 / 6)
                  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by br3n, 11/05/2004 14:38:38 EST (4.18 / 11)
                  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by rex007can, 11/05/2004 11:27:44 EST (2.75 / 8)
        • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by rex007can, 11/05/2004 10:32:17 EST (2.66 / 6)
  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by JohnGabriel, 11/06/2004 00:58:52 EST (3.00 / 5)
  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by pgk, 11/05/2004 08:38:50 EST (2.90 / 10)
An Even Briefer History Of MockLaw (2.00 / 13) (#7)
by Potential Recruit on Fri Nov 5th, 2004 at 08:42:31 EST
  1. People are unhappy with the moderation at GrokLaw, including the fact that PJ zaps posts that are too critical of her.
  2. MockLaw is set up, copying all of GrokLaw content, but with an "unmoderated" comments section.
  3. Shock, horror - the MockLaw moderator zaps comments criticising him, dismissing them as "trolls".
  4. Loooooong debate on the SCOX/CKX message board about the MockLaw moderation policies.
  5. MockLaw is now gone.

Moral of the story: people love to bitch and hear the sound of their own voices, yet will not practice what they preach.

  • Re: An Even Briefer History Of MockLaw by pgk, 11/05/2004 08:53:11 EST (3.27 / 11)
    • Re: An Even Briefer History Of MockLaw by jim01k, 11/10/2004 16:06:09 EST (4.60 / 15)
      • Re: An Even Briefer History Of MockLaw by br3n, 11/10/2004 21:07:00 EST (3.85 / 7)
  • Re: An Even Briefer History Of MockLaw by br3n, 11/05/2004 08:54:04 EST (3.16 / 6)
Re: A Brief History of GrokWar (2.00 / 1) (#66)
by ColonelZen (tzellers lieth within pobox of thy kingdom com) on Fri Nov 5th, 2004 at 23:47:20 EST
(User Info)
Damn.  I do that every time I use that word.

By way of retaliation I'm rating your post a SPELLING TROLL. ;-)

(of course my g'parent to this post was technically a troll as well).

-- TWZ

  • Re: A Brief History of GrokWar by heimdal31, 11/05/2004 23:51:08 EST (2.50 / 2)
CKX liars (2.00 / 5) (#210)
by Potential Recruit on Sat Nov 27th, 2004 at 18:35:09 EST
Proof that there are trolls on CKX who claim to be fighting IPW's cause.

Apparently, if you read CKX, lifewish's and MathFox's post has disappeared from the "Just So You Know Judges Are Human Beings Too" article.

Just refreshed my browser and there they are.

And who posted these lies?

mrbuttle and nobuttl (believed on face value without any checking by John Gabriel)

Yet more evidence that someone's stirring things up and you lot are lapping it up as sheep and puppets, incapable of your own thinking.

  • Re: CKX liars by mrbuttle, 11/27/2004 21:03:15 EST (3.83 / 6)
    • Re: CKX liars by Potential Recruit, 11/27/2004 21:24:31 EST (2.33 / 3)
      • Re: CKX liars by nono2sco, 11/27/2004 21:29:51 EST (3.33 / 3)
        • Re: CKX liars by Potential Recruit, 11/27/2004 21:37:45 EST (2.00 / 5)
          • Re: CKX liars by nono2sco, 11/27/2004 21:41:58 EST (3.80 / 5)
      • Re: CKX liars by br3n, 11/27/2004 21:43:51 EST (3.00 / 4)
  • Re: CKX liars by br3n, 12/01/2004 21:44:26 EST (3.80 / 5)
    • Re: CKX liars by mikey, 12/02/2004 03:30:01 EST (none / 1)
      • Re: CKX liars by ColonelZen, 12/02/2004 13:56:27 EST (3.50 / 4)
        • Re: CKX liars by ColonelZen, 12/02/2004 14:04:31 EST (3.75 / 4)
          • Re: CKX liars by nono2sco, 12/02/2004 14:09:01 EST (none / 2)
      • Re: CKX liars by br3n, 12/02/2004 16:00:40 EST (3.00 / 3)
      • Re: CKX liars by hgc, 12/03/2004 03:22:40 EST (none / 2)
  • Re: CKX liars by br3n, 11/27/2004 19:12:21 EST (3.00 / 3)
    • Re: CKX liars by Potential Recruit, 11/27/2004 19:17:22 EST (2.75 / 4)
      • Re: CKX liars by br3n, 11/27/2004 20:20:25 EST (3.00 / 4)
      • Re: CKX liars by Potential Recruit, 11/27/2004 20:06:39 EST (2.00 / 4)
        • Re: CKX liars by nono2sco, 11/27/2004 21:07:48 EST (3.80 / 5)
        • Re: CKX liars by br3n, 11/27/2004 20:22:24 EST (3.60 / 5)
          • Re: CKX liars by Potential Recruit, 11/27/2004 20:36:37 EST (1.50 / 6)
            • Re: CKX liars by br3n, 11/27/2004 20:40:48 EST (3.60 / 5)
              • Re: CKX liars by nathanh, 11/30/2004 05:58:29 EST (3.66 / 3)
                • Re: CKX liars by br3n, 11/30/2004 06:07:36 EST (none / 2)
            • Re: CKX liars by nono2sco, 11/27/2004 21:15:15 EST (3.60 / 5)
            • Re: CKX liars by Potential Recruit, 11/27/2004 20:37:51 EST (1.83 / 6)
              • Re: CKX liars by br3n, 11/27/2004 20:41:47 EST (3.20 / 5)
        • Re: CKX liars by Potential Recruit, 11/27/2004 20:13:56 EST (1.50 / 6)
          • Re: CKX liars by nono2sco, 11/27/2004 21:09:50 EST (3.40 / 5)
            • Re: CKX liars by mrbuttle, 11/27/2004 21:32:36 EST (3.80 / 5)
              • Re: CKX liars by nono2sco, 11/27/2004 21:35:33 EST (3.75 / 4)
              • Re: CKX liars by Potential Recruit, 11/27/2004 21:40:47 EST (1.60 / 5)
                • Re: CKX liars by nono2sco, 11/27/2004 21:44:22 EST (3.60 / 5)
                • Re: CKX liars by JohnGabriel, 11/28/2004 02:19:44 EST (3.00 / 4)
  • Re: CKX liars by Potential Recruit, 11/27/2004 18:50:41 EST (1.33 / 6)
    • Re: Groklaw liars by br3n, 11/27/2004 19:15:10 EST (3.00 / 3)
test (2.00 / 5) (#301)
by Potential Recruit on Mon Dec 13th, 2004 at 00:08:41 EST
well?

Bye bye spambot (none / 0) (#312)
by Potential Recruit on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 10:59:34 EST
This used to be a spambot post that is flooding the site. Due to volume, I had to resort to this while I work to block access by these bots. My apologies - thanks for your patience.

Jeff

A Brief History of GrokWar | 311 comments (307 topical, 4 editorial, 7 hidden)
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