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A different (maybe not better) plan


Groklaw

By mikey, Section grok*/OSRM Articles
Posted on Tue Nov 9th, 2004 at 04:29:14 EST

I posted the following comment at Groklaw on August 5th, 2004, in response to the article posted by Pamela Jones titled IBM Pledges Not To Use Patents Against Linux.

In particular, I was replying to the following three paragraphs of the article:

"And now a personal word. To all of you who attacked OSRM, and me because of OSRM, who knew about the Microsoft maneuvers and tried to creatively block them, now you know the rest of the story. I didn't write about it before, mainly because I wanted to understand the issue first personally, something I highly recommend. I didn't work on the patent project, so I needed time to study the issue before I could write about it. And then Munich happened. And then I totally got it. Think about Munich. If there were an OSRM offering patent insurance in Germany, or several such, already in place, would they have felt they needed to shut down the Linux program while their lawyers investigate the patent threat or would they have had another option? Are you so naive you don't know Microsoft already knows about any patents it can try to use as a weapon?

If you have a better plan, come forward with it now. But there is no ignoring the patent issue. It's there, not because our side wants it to be, but because the intellectual property legal system is broken. It doesn't suit software. And we believe those with an agenda are heading our way. Or they were. What IBM, OSDL, Red Hat and OSRM have done has shifted the balance. I'm also ashamed of some of you. Next time, I suggest you get all the facts before you speak. And not from Forbes and trolls. Does Forbes ever get one thing right when it comes to Linux? How do some of you forget that each time and take their poison pen seriously?

Well, all right. We are all humans. We can't be perfect. Some people live and learn. Others just live. I hope those of you so willing to leap on those trying to help Linux survive will live and learn. And I am quite serious when I say that if you have a better strategy, step forward and share it. If you don't, don't tear down those who are doing their level best to fight on your behalf. Remember how a few of you blasted us for offering indemnification? And then yesterday, McBride said that the reason SCOsource didn't thrive was because third parties offered indemnification. We didn't just fall off a turnip truck, you know."

I felt personally offended by the implication that those who disagreed with the business model of OSRM were attacking OSRM and Pamela Jones, that they were lacking all of the facts, and that we had done something that we should be ashamed off.

Since the discussion went nowhere on groklaw, I am going to repost my comment here.

A different (maybe not better) plan

I happen to be one of those people who is not convinced that the solution that OSRM is offering is helpful to F/OSS. Not agreeing with OSRM's business plan, and by extension yours, is not shameful. People sharing a different opinion than yours, and coming to different conclusions based on their grasp of certain facts, does not mean both sets of conclusions are wrong. It is however, presumptuous to assume that I don't have a grasp on any facts, or that all facts lead to the same conclusion. Believe it or not, disagreeing with you does not automatically make someone a troll. What makes someone a troll is when they do it solely to inflame or as a personal attack.

I am not sure what "rest of the story" you are alluding to. If you are attributing SCOsource's failure due to third parties offering indemnification to OSRM, I respectfully disagree.  The only party that I know of that have been offering indemnification is HP. I wouldn't call what Red Hat offers indemnification. I highly doubt that when the 1500 extortion letters went out to previous or current SCO customers that SCO backed off because OSRM had sold those corporations indemnification policies. I believe it has more to do with SCO's behavior and the  industry reaction to the lawsuits. To attribute SCO backing down on SCOSource to OSRM is ludicrous unless someone can fill me in with additional facts.

And yes, I do have ideas for a different plan. I don't know if the plan would work or not and I don't claim it is the perfect plan. The plan is based on what I believe has worked well for the F/OSS community - a combination of what you have done here with groklaw and the successful example of OSDL.

Linux is, and will continue to be, a target only when it threatens the bottom line of corporations like SCO, Sun, and Microsoft. The good thing is that other corporations have embraced disruptive change, and discovered that money can be made from the F/OSS model. Corporations like IBM, HP, Red Hat, and Novell. As long as linux has value to them, they have a vested interest in its success. Linux is doing what the justice department failed to do - market correction in the software industry. They also happen to have the financial, legal, and political resources to make a considerable difference.

What I propose is to take advantage of this bizarre alignment of the planets - big business and F/OSS. The OSDL model is a perfect example. My proposal addresses the short, mid, and long term goals of business and F/OSS.

First of all, it should be a non-profit entity like OSDL.  The board membership should be structured to include representatives from corporate and F/OSS interests. For examples IBM, Red Hat, Fujitsu, HP, Nortel, EFF, FSF, pubpat.org, ISC, Apache Foundation, etc...

The short term problem of the patent threat should be addressed by some sort of patent trust or patent bank. I have no idea how to implement this - some sort of license or outright donation.  If corporations are making money off of F/OSS, give them another way to contribute back.  This would give IBM the perfect opportunity to formalize their recent statements about not using patents against linux. The short term goal is to fight fire with fire, create a patent bank that can be used to dissuade players like microsoft from attacking. The current rules of the game won't change soon enough to stave off attacks, so if you can't beat them, join them. Beat them at their own game. Imagine if you will, projects like Apache, projects owned by the ISC (bind, dhcp), sendmail, kde, and gnome all having their code combed through for patents.  Certainly the F/OSS community has been creative enough over the last 20 years to have some patentable ideas? The  ultimate goal in the short term is to stave off immediate patent attacks.

In the mid term emulate the success of the groklaw phenomenon. Apply the model to the creation of a prior art database, to legal research, create a focal point to rally the troops and whack the fud. Here is another idea for the mid term. The ultimate goal in the mid term is to render software patents useless by basically a legal DOS attack. Imagine a scenario where this body can apply the same attack to microsoft. Claim microsoft is violating patents held by a industry coalition and take a SCO dive  at their source code. Expose the fact that proprietary code may be full of patent infringement as well.

The long term goal is to change the laws. Once there is no financial gain from software patents because they have been rendered useless by the patent bank WMD and prior art database, it is time to start lobbying for changes in the law.

Problems? Heck yeah there are problems, lots of them.  Would IBM extend loyalty to F/OSS projects other than the kernel? What kind of license for the patents, GPL -vs- BSD models? What if one member of the consortium decides to go after another? Is this idea even legal? Can we "all get along"? What happens when microsoft quits being a monopoly and all financial motivation to cooperate goes away? Will it work against the leeches that have only patents and no products? Are all software patents a bad idea?

I wouldn't have believed any of this possible before OSDL and the SCO lawsuits.

Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

< GrokLaw Does Book Reviews (24 comments) | OSRM: Please Clear Up Some Confusion! (69 comments) >
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A different (maybe not better) plan | 21 comments (21 topical, 0 editorial, 5 hidden)
Re: A different (maybe not better) plan (3.40 / 5) (#4)
by Potential Recruit on Thu Nov 11th, 2004 at 12:35:04 EST
It's all very well stating what you don't like about the way OSRM is organised, behaves, etc., but surely you realise that OSRM cannot be the be all and end all, and that anyone else can start up a non-profit organisation to compete with it?

What I don't understand is why people wither want to stop OSRM, or force OSRM to change, when the best way to force it to change is to compete with it.

  • Re: A different (maybe not better) plan by mikey, 11/11/2004 12:50:54 EST (4.60 / 5)
    • Re: A different (maybe not better) plan by Potential Recruit, 11/11/2004 13:38:29 EST (3.83 / 6)
      • Re: A different (maybe not better) plan by heimdal31, 11/11/2004 14:30:46 EST (4.50 / 4)
      • Re: A different (maybe not better) plan by mikey, 11/11/2004 15:17:54 EST (3.66 / 3)
  • Re: A different (maybe not better) plan by mikey, 11/11/2004 15:28:47 EST (4.00 / 4)
Re: A different (maybe not better) plan (3.33 / 3) (#1)
by JohnGabriel (jgabriel66@yahoo.com) on Tue Nov 9th, 2004 at 10:06:31 EST
(User Info) http://slashdot.org/~muparadigm/journal
PJ: "And then yesterday, McBride said that the reason SCOsource didn't thrive was because third parties offered indemnification."

I'm trying to remember when McBride's word was something we took seriously. Maybe I missed the memo on that one.

But as far as I remember, generally speaking, if McBride says something, the automatic is that it's not true.

I mean, really, we're talking about the kind of guy you can always tell is lying, simply by checking to see if his lips move.

  • Re: A different (maybe not better) plan by Potential Recruit, 11/19/2004 10:36:47 EST (3.75 / 4)
    • Re: A different (maybe not better) plan by nono2sco, 11/20/2004 02:13:58 EST (3.25 / 4)
      • Re: A different (maybe not better) plan by pfaut, 11/20/2004 20:52:12 EST (none / 1)
        • Re: A different (maybe not better) plan by nono2sco, 11/21/2004 02:25:11 EST (none / 2)
  • Re: A different (maybe not better) plan by nono2sco, 11/09/2004 10:50:28 EST (3.60 / 5)
    • Re: A different (maybe not better) plan by JohnGabriel, 11/09/2004 11:57:17 EST (4.00 / 4)
Re: A different (maybe not better) plan (none / 2) (#14)
by mikey (mikey at badpenguins dot com) on Tue Jan 11th, 2005 at 10:25:34 EST
(User Info) http://www.ip-wars.net
The short term problem of the patent threat should be addressed by some sort of patent trust or patent bank. I have no idea how to implement this - some sort of license or outright donation.  If corporations are making money off of F/OSS, give them another way to contribute back.  This would give IBM the perfect opportunity to formalize their recent statements about not using patents against linux.

Hoorah IBM.  As mentioned elsewhere on ip-wars.net, IBM has stepped up to the plate and announced a formal pledge!

From businesswire.com:


ARMONK, N.Y.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 11, 2005--IBM today pledged open access to key innovations covered by 500 IBM software patents to individuals and groups working on open source software. IBM believes this is the largest pledge ever of patents of any kind and represents a major shift in the way IBM manages and deploys its intellectual property (IP) portfolio.
     The pledge is applicable to any individual, community, or company working on or using software that meets the Open Source Initiative (OSI) definition of open source software now or in the future.
     IBM intends for this pledge to form the basis of an industry-wide "patent commons" in which patents are used to establish a platform for further innovations in areas of broad interest to information technology developers and users.

Between OSDL members such as IBM using patents in a F/OSS friendly manner and some points I have seen made by Harlan, I believe the patent threat is diminished at best.  The true threat that is left is from companies who have no interest in bringing products to market, one trick ponies who use patents solely to extort money.

Regardless, don't expect any apologies from Pamela Jones of Groklaw admitting that perhaps there were better approaches to the problem than OSRM's pseudo indemnification.


---
DISCLAIMER:
IANAL, may have no idea what the heck I am talking about, yadda yadda yadda.

Bye bye spambot (none / 1) (#20)
by Potential Recruit on Mon Nov 27th, 2006 at 13:55:42 EST
This used to be a spambot post that is flooding the site. Due to volume, I had to resort to this while I work to block access by these bots. My apologies - thanks for your patience.

Jeff

Bye bye spambot (none / 0) (#21)
by Potential Recruit on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 12:16:59 EST
This used to be a spambot post that is flooding the site. Due to volume, I had to resort to this while I work to block access by these bots. My apologies - thanks for your patience.

Jeff

A different (maybe not better) plan | 21 comments (21 topical, 0 editorial, 5 hidden)
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