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The ultimate web forum, if maximum freedom is the premise.


Scoop

By NilsR, Section General Articles
Posted on Sat Dec 18th, 2004 at 10:33:03 EST

To me it seems web forums all have a fundamental conflict between giving posters freedom and anonymity, and giving readers of these posts a useful signal-to-noise ratio (STN).

In my view, the conflict rises not from the idea of moderation itself, but from the way this moderation is implemented.

I've been involved, on and off, in many on-line communities for quite some time. Unfortunately, one tendency they have had in common is that they all degraded, to some degree, over time. Here is an idea I have about how to design a web forum with this tendency in mind, with the intention of not later having to counter it by compromising on the freedom of the participants.

As far as I can see, Scoop allows all (that want) an equal say in a numerically based evaluation of each post, which freedom-wise seems to me to be an improvement over the closed group moderator model. However, it still suffers from the fundamental flaw of limiting the decision making power of the individual reader. Notice how some members here have already indicated a wish for the good old plonk.

So my idea is to turn things more-or-less upside-down:

Everyone should be able to rate and/or label each post based on their own opinion. This data would then be sent to the server, becoming metadata that is linked to both the post and the identity (persona) of the judging reader. Note that in the current models, each post is most often only linked to one global value/judgment.

Instead of the "old way" of moderating all posts (almost) the same for anyone, this metadata would then be made available to each individual reader, for filtering purposes. The possibilities seems endless to me, though the added bandwidth and processing requirements probably will limit what realistically can be done.

One simple example is emulating the old moderator models, by allowing the readers to choose all, or a subset, of the judging readers as their personal moderator(s). It would still improve the freedom of the reader significantly, because of the added possibility to individually choose your moderator(s). The choice of using no moderator should of course be available, both to freedom fanatics and to those interested in adding their judgments to the metadata.

To give readers incentives to participate in the judging process, statistics of all sorts could be published by the website. Most used moderator, most post moderated, most moderated post used, etc.

The website could also host one or several bot-based moderators, a word blacklist bot and a Bayesian based bot are some that comes to mind. As before the individual user would be in charge of choosing to heed the resulting evaluations.

The client side filtering could be implemented in many ways, for example as collapsed threads and links to sub-threads, like I think they do on Slashdot.

By making the metadata of the post author available for use in filtering, you'd get plonking, by the way.

Even a freedom loving web forum host would need to be able to delete or suppress a few posts though. I can think of at least two such cases; One is to delete posts that put the host at legal risk, the other is to edit multiple massive contents-free posts that are threatens to fill up the server database. In my view, both should be made obvious to the readers, perhaps by exchanging these posts with standard messages explaining the what and the why of the deleting/editing.

I doubt it's possible to adjust the Scoop software to incorporate this idea, but I'd love to be shown I'm wrong about that! For personal reasons, I currently have no time to code such a forum, myself. Since one never really know what tomorrow brings, and I wish this idea to live, I post it here so that others may take the ball and run with it. If no-one does, I will try to do so myself, later. I've left out a lot of ideas that will only clutter this article, but I'll probably post them using the comments, when time allows.

Off course, pointers to forums already implementing this, or anything else relevant, would be much appreciated! Here, for example, is a pointer I got while working on this article, Collaborative filtering seems closely related to what I'm thinking about.

< Computer Associates International Inc. vs. Altai Inc. (6 comments) | Exhibit E: SCO's letter to IBM (21 comments) >
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The ultimate web forum, if maximum freedom is the premise. | 10 comments (4 topical, 6 editorial, 1 hidden)
Re: The ultimate web forum, if maximum freedom is (3.75 / 4) (#8)
by NilsR (nils@paragon.no) on Tue Dec 28th, 2004 at 00:53:06 EST
(User Info) http://home.c2i.net/nils_ragnar/nils/worldview.html
This seems relevant.
The trust metric used in Advogato has a property not known in any previous trust metric: resistance to catastrophic failure in the face of a sufficiently massive attack. Instead, the number of bad nodes accepted scales linearly, and with a fairly small constant, with the number of certificates from valid accounts to bogus ones. It is also easy to compute efficiently and fairly simple to understand. As such, it should find applications in security infrastructures, as well as defining online communities, reliably excluding spammers, trolls, and other common annoyances.
Taken from the interesting explanation of how the Advogato trust metric system works.

--
An unmistakable sign of paranoia is continual mistrust.
Rate This Article (3.16 / 6) (#2)
by postbot on Tue Dec 14th, 2004 at 21:39:18 EST
(User Info)
Rate this article by voting for this comment.

Bye bye spambot (none / 0) (#10)
by Potential Recruit on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 11:42:32 EST
This used to be a spambot post that is flooding the site. Due to volume, I had to resort to this while I work to block access by these bots. My apologies - thanks for your patience.

Jeff

The ultimate web forum, if maximum freedom is the premise. | 10 comments (4 topical, 6 editorial, 1 hidden)
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