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Whatever Happened To Whatever


Groklaw

By harlan wilkerson, Section Diary
Posted on Thu Dec 16th, 2004 at 07:33:35 EST

I read JCausey's Diary with some interest today. I found the portion that said:

That led to some discussion about making sure we keep an open mind when presented with information that contradicts our (previously) firmly held beliefs.

I think that most of the problems people here have in dealing with discussions about Groklaw are those based upon some sentimental belief in PJ, and not upon any facts that they possess about her, or any errors in the reports we have been providing to them.

Some of us wanted to prevent SCO from being able to act, to engage them on the issues, and to lay their claims to rest by every legal means. PJ just wanted to report about whatever they did after the fact and heckle them occasionally from the sidelines. In that sense she was the ultimate example of a "potential recruit" or a troll.

In Australia, Germany, and Poland people took action as a group in the courts and through consumer protection agencies. They shutdown SCO's FUD activities much sooner than we were able to here in the US. McBride was silenced here after his investors told him to shut up. Those Linux enthusiasts and businesses overseas didn't resort to establishing an award winning anti-FUD site or writing open letters to Darl McBride, until after the legal and political measures had been applied to the problem in the first place. Here in the US, things didn't happen that way.

If we are going to learn from our mistakes - so that we can do a better job next time - we have to discuss what went wrong and what should have been done differently. PJ conducted Groklaw's business in a compartmentalized fashion and former insiders need to be able to compare notes without being shouted down.

PJ setup her site, and then some of us prodded her into action. For example, on the 26th of August 2003 PJ wrote a single article on the old Radio blog where a Groklaw member and attorney advised folks not to worry, and to just contact their state consumer protection agencies. The same article had an excerpt of a letter forwarded to the GAO Fraudnet through Kansas Senator Brownback, and another letter to Connecticut Attorney General Blumenthal. All of that activity came to an abrupt halt when PJ was offered the use of the servers at Ibiblio.

Many of us asked (repeatedly) why that was? She responded that she didn't want Groklaw to be used to advocate political action. I do not know if this was Ibiblio or OSRM policy, but it hadn't been PJ's or Groklaw's policy up until that time. You can write checks and punch the clock at Pubpat until the day you die, or you can take political action and change the damned copyright and patent laws. I see nothing wrong with wanting to do the latter.

You might have read about Con Zymaris of Open Source Victoria in the Sydney Morning Herald, or that the government there was awaiting the results of an FTC investigation here. A group of us Groklaw users wrote a US complaint, and sent it to the Secretary of the Commission through Senator Brownback, the Chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on Science, Technology, and Space. The Secretary of the Commission turned it over to the staff, but without any follow-up from the press here, or pressure from the public it has languished there as a routine matter of business ever since. I winnowed out some of the material and sent it to Con and he thanked me, and he forwarded it to the Victoria LUGS. PJ thinks "Pubpat represents the public's interests against wrongly issued patents and unsound patent policy," I say Senator Brownback does. He was working on our side, but PJ wouldn't publish anything about it.

He also introduced legislation to stop the RIAA from obtaining John Doe search warrants and directed the FCC to insure that any use of the so-called "broadcast flag" would preserve a consumers fair use rights, but PJ wouldn't write about those efforts either. If you think things can't change overnight, think again and remember how fast the National "Do Not Call Registry" was setup. I'm not just starting out to bitch about this sort of thing, I bitched about it in the comments I made at Groklaw.

Another point that needs to be made is that: everything doesn't need to be introduced as an article. Almost nothing could appear at Groklaw until it could be rewritten into some folksy short article full of irrelevant details about PJ's sister borrowing her clothes without permission or some such thing. I got along fine without that in my news coverage for 50 years, and could do so again with very little effort. Newspapers have classifed ads, carry legal notices, and present lots of information without trying to "sex it up". There needs to be a section where long boring documents like the Novell APA can be posted "all at once" instead of the piecemeal fashion in which it was handled by Groklaw for the first several months.

PJ was assisted by a group that presented her with tons of factual research and documents that speak for themselves. I personally received 400 e-mails from PJ over a six month period asking for answers to various technical questions. In many cases I was simply being asked to verify something another reliable expert had already told her. It made no difference when I did confirm those things, they never became the basis for any material that appeared on Groklaw. PJ was in no position to contradict or question the advice of her panels of experts, but she all too frequently did so anyway. I worked in the government telecommunications business all of my adult life, and am willing to listen to the opinions of others with similar experience on that subject. I was a program manager in one of the agencies that helped fund the contracts that sustained Berkeley's CSRG and would think that my opinion about the government's rights under those agreements wouldn't be so easy to dismiss.

I read everything at Groklaw and wrote 1200 posts there because I felt obliged to share some of the things I'd learned over the years. The signal to noise ratio was pretty miserable, but I did it anyway. In truth, Groklaw was NOT based upon some new and powerful idea, it was based upon sustained effort and hard work. During that same period members of my group sent over 1600 private e-mails back and forth with analysis and proofs so that we could avoid sifting through the comments section at Groklaw trying to find each others work. Research quotations from primary sources and legal documents don't need any public comment period anyway.

When PJ finally had to publish something about Novell's motion to dismiss she said:

The detailed arguments on why the APA and Amendment 2 don't measure up as a copyright transfer sound a lot like Harlan's comments for the last few months. It's complex, and you have to force your eyes not to glaze over, but here it is"

But she never published anything I had written to her about the APA. In December she had started releasing the missing portions that SCO had withheld and simply promised:

"When I have it all up, I'll tell you what I think it means." and "review the 1995 Asset Purchase Agreement and Amendment 2. Some of the clues are in there. It'll be fun, like a jigsaw puzzle."

I had supplied her with all of the missing portions. Only she knows why she didn't post the whole right then.  

For months Bruce Perens of OSRM and anyone else that could read the SEC filings knew, that Novell still enjoyed the royalties and beneficial ownership of UNIX. On the 8th of December I informed PJ by e-mail that Novell had finally registered the System V copyrights. I downloaded and grep'd the SCO SEC filings for the string "Novell" and told PJ that it had not been included among the risk factors - even though they had publicly contested SCO's ownership in May, and during the Ximian (August) and Suse (November) acquisition announcements. I also informed her that no System V OS software registrations were shown among Novell's asset disclosures. Worse still no version 1.0 and 1.1 manuals or software were listed among the assets at all. You can't convey ownership of something "in writing" and completely leave out all mention of it too.

That means she knew several weeks in advance of the ABI letter mass mailing that SCO did not own a clear title to UNIX. The information was undeniable and was stored in the US Copyright Office and SEC online databases. She chose to say and do nothing with that knowledge. SCO was not suing anyone over their web sites. Nonetheless if those had come under a DDOS attack, PJ would have managed at least an article or some analysis everyday. SCO was threatening to sue third parties over their UNIX copyrights, and those were finally under a real legal attack, but she said nothing at all. She just waited until SCO had filed their IP enforcement announcement with the SEC, and had mailed the thousands of ABI letters on the 22 December 2003. That was "perfect timing" according to her "potential recruit" way of thinking. But what if she had acted and had published the story everyday?  In that case SCO couldn't have made the 22 December filings without mentioning the Novell risk factors, and probably wouldn't have wasted the their time with all of those letters - like the ones sent to Daimler and Autozone.

Within three days of the mailings (25 December) our research group had written, not 1, but 4 articles using the geeklog software at Ibiblio including the one eventually named "Groklaw Takes A Closer Look at the ABI Files, by Frank Sorenson et al". These articles each covered a different historical period in the the public development of the UNIX ABI. We started with Uniforum Draft Standard 83 and ended with Monterey and the Trillian Project. PJ wouldn't published any of them. Day after day SCO 's claims and threats to file additional lawsuits against end users went unchallenged. Articles appeared about Patents and Dan Ravicher, Bruce Perens wrote about the the MyDoom Virus, OSRM announced they would offer vendor neutral indemnification. Finally, on 30 January 2004, over a month after it was first written, one ABI article was finally released. But instead of including one installment each day she released the follow-up articles weeks or months later, and some were never published at all. Dr. Stupid's article on the files effected by the BSDi settlement was placed into the "Members Only Area" and then jerked out of the cue so many times that I lost track. A few days after the first ABI article appeared (4 February 2004) it was announced that PJ had been in talks with OSRM and would be taking a position with them. Four days after that she tracked down a total stranger at Slashdot and asked him to write an article titled "Whatever Happened to Investigative Journalism?"

< Water, water everywhere (11 comments) | Diaries -- to show them all or not? (36 comments) >
Display: Sort:
Whatever Happened To Whatever | 78 comments (78 topical, 0 editorial, 3 hidden)
Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever (4.38 / 13) (#35)
by br3n on Sat Dec 18th, 2004 at 08:43:32 EST
(User Info)
<I think that most of the problems people here have in dealing with discussions about Groklaw are those based upon some sentimental belief in PJ, and not upon any facts that they possess about her, or any errors in the reports we have been providing to them.>

my stages of denial were all based on personal belief even tho the facts were staring me in the face.

<In Australia, Germany, and Poland people took action as a group in the courts and through consumer protection agencies. They shutdown SCO's FUD activities much sooner than we were able to here in the US. McBride was silenced here after his investors told him to shut up. >

any comparisons were carefully weeded on the website about this.she allowed criticism but only limited types.no criticisms of judges was allowed.

<If we are going to learn from our mistakes - so that we can do a better job next time - we have to discuss what went wrong and what should have been done differently. PJ conducted Groklaw's business in a compartmentalized fashion and former insiders need to be able to compare notes without being shouted down.>

which is why if i see something that needs addressing it will be a dairy post and let them scream.talking openly is the only F/OSS way that will be acceptable.and the more people try to shout me down the louder i just may get.

<PJ setup her site, and then some of us prodded her into action. For example, on the 26th of August 2003 PJ wrote a single article on the old Radio blog where a Groklaw member and attorney advised folks not to worry, and to just contact their state consumer protection agencies. The same article had an excerpt of a letter forwarded to the GAO Fraudnet through Kansas Senator Brownback, and another letter to Connecticut Attorney General Blumenthal. All of that activity came to an abrupt halt when PJ was offered the use of the servers at Ibiblio.>

harlan you are truly amazing by tracking this to different events.these are things i often wondered about.i just kept quietly writing and calling people but i always felt groklaw lost a big chance to make a difference since they didnt promote advocacy that meant involvement.

<PJ was assisted by a group that presented her with tons of factual research and documents that speak for themselves. I personally received 400 e-mails from PJ over a six month period asking for answers to various technical questions. In many cases I was simply being asked to verify something another reliable expert had already told her. It made no difference when I did confirm those things, they never became the basis for any material that appeared on Groklaw. PJ was in no position to contradict or question the advice of her panels of experts, but she all too frequently did so anyway. I worked in the government telecommunications business all of my adult life, and am willing to listen to the opinions of others with similar experience on that subject. I was a program manager in one of the agencies that helped fund the contracts that sustained Berkeley's CSRG and would think that my opinion about the government's rights under those agreements wouldn't be so easy to dismiss.>

this right here showed more of the paranoia side to pj than anything.she had all these knowledgeable people but she double checked them constantly.then to add insult didnt use the info.and trolls can say she didnt mean it as insult but for geeks if you spend time on it then toss it away that was wasted time.(exception is buggy code).
pubpat,downhill and a few other groups come to mind that we need to encourage others to follow and help with.EFF and OSDL are key to us.
br3n

  • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by mikey, 12/19/2004 11:58:11 EST (4.00 / 9)
    • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by br3n, 12/19/2004 14:12:30 EST (3.71 / 7)
  • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by harlan wilkerson, 12/19/2004 11:42:42 EST (3.33 / 9)
    • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by br3n, 12/19/2004 14:15:49 EST (3.42 / 7)
      • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by harlan wilkerson, 12/19/2004 15:24:23 EST (4.20 / 10)
        • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by Napoleon Reddress, 12/19/2004 17:22:32 EST (3.87 / 8)
          • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by harlan wilkerson, 12/20/2004 09:39:01 EST (4.25 / 8)
        • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by br3n, 12/19/2004 16:19:33 EST (3.00 / 7)
  • Re: ratings by br3n, 12/19/2004 14:27:46 EST (3.28 / 7)
    • Re: ratings by harlan wilkerson, 12/19/2004 15:39:40 EST (3.00 / 5)
      • Re: ratings by br3n, 12/19/2004 16:14:13 EST (3.00 / 6)
    • Re: ratings by mitmosnar, 12/19/2004 16:16:55 EST (3.00 / 8)
      • Re: ratings by br3n, 12/19/2004 16:35:36 EST (3.14 / 7)
        • Re: ratings by mitmosnar, 12/19/2004 17:56:27 EST (3.44 / 9)
          • Re: ratings by br3n, 12/19/2004 18:28:29 EST (3.50 / 6)
          • Re: ratings by Potentiality, 12/19/2004 21:49:55 EST (3.00 / 8)
            • Re: ratings by hgc, 12/19/2004 21:58:17 EST (3.40 / 5)
    • Re: ratings by Potential Recruit, 12/20/2004 00:22:57 EST (2.30 / 10)
      • Re: ratings by mitmosnar, 12/20/2004 19:59:17 EST (3.75 / 8)
        • Re: ratings by br3n, 12/20/2004 20:13:03 EST (3.40 / 5)
          • Re: ratings by mitmosnar, 12/21/2004 02:20:21 EST (3.14 / 7)
            • Re: ratings by JCausey, 12/21/2004 08:36:35 EST (3.57 / 7)
              • Priceless! by mitmosnar, 12/21/2004 14:12:44 EST (3.44 / 9)
              • Re: ratings by Potential Recruit, 12/21/2004 10:31:25 EST (2.55 / 9)
Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever (4.00 / 16) (#1)
by pgk (PG_King zzzzzzz (yahoo.com)) on Thu Dec 16th, 2004 at 08:27:38 EST
(User Info)
There does seem to be a big gap between what many individuals perceive Groklaw to be and repeatedly bring up into debate (legal research site) and the reality of it being one person telling the story from their perspective and will be coloured by that individuals "background". (Even if that story is based on the work of others.) Personally I see nothing wrong with that, provided people understand that's what they are getting. For many things one size doesn't fit all. Witness the multitude of newspapers covering the same subject matter with different slants (usually politcal).

Almost nothing could appear at Groklaw until it could be rewritten into some folksy short article

This always amused me, I posted a couple of transcripts of recent court documents here recently and I've since seen criticism from PRs here and named users elsewhere criticising the lack on analysis. Mostly the court filings seem pretty self explantory and where I'm not sure I enjoy digging a little deeper myself. Which again I suppose shows the gap between what many perceive groklaw to be and what it actually is.

This is of course why IP-Wars should prove valuable, a different perspective on the same material.

  • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by harlan wilkerson, 12/16/2004 19:25:02 EST (4.40 / 15)
    • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by pgk, 12/17/2004 02:06:34 EST (3.63 / 11)
      • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by harlan wilkerson, 12/17/2004 03:17:26 EST (4.23 / 13)
        • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by JCausey, 12/17/2004 09:27:22 EST (3.25 / 8)
          • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by harlan wilkerson, 12/17/2004 09:31:46 EST (3.00 / 5)
Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever (3.92 / 14) (#6)
by NilsR (nils@paragon.no) on Thu Dec 16th, 2004 at 21:17:51 EST
(User Info) http://home.c2i.net/nils_ragnar/nils/worldview.html

I think that most of the problems people here have in dealing with discussions about Groklaw are those based upon some sentimental belief in PJ, and not upon any facts that they possess about her, or any errors in the reports we have been providing to them.

I can't speak for others, but my "problem" is different. Though I find what you write interesting, I feel I get few "facts" from this and previous postings. Mostly, I think of it as opinions and claims. That's the nature of the Internet, and why I file statements like yours under "undecided". Then if I sometime in the future have to act on such unverified statements, often all I can do is weight them against my personal perceptions of the one putting them forward. Those perceptions are then mostly based on your writing style. Shallow as that is, it seems often to be the only way. In your case unfortunately, lots of your writings seems bitter and harsh (to me). Maybe then motivated to see the worst in everything PJ does and says?

For example, you seem to ridicule PJ's "folksy" style, and her lack of knowledge on many of the topics. I'm inclined to consider the possibility that some of the reason for the (claimed) delay of her publishing articles, could simply be that she feels she have to understand the subject enough to write in a way that others, like-wisely challenged, can understand. IOW, "folksy". I happen to like that style, and consider it a main value of Groklaw. I think many like me do. That this doesn't fit into what you find important, doesn't make it less valuable for others.

That is not to say that you can't be right about there being better ways to do a lot of the things you seemed to try to get done through Groklaw. I hope you can get it done here instead. I also wish you would just drop the negativity and focus on the case, for your own sake really. Unless I'm the only one feeling this way, I believe you're hurting your own image a lot more than PJ's.


--
An unmistakable sign of paranoia is continual mistrust.

  • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by harlan wilkerson, 12/17/2004 00:06:22 EST (4.28 / 14)
    • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by NilsR, 12/17/2004 18:15:28 EST (3.42 / 14)
      • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by harlan wilkerson, 12/18/2004 05:14:17 EST (4.46 / 15)
        • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by mojotoad, 12/20/2004 19:38:56 EST (4.00 / 7)
        • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by JCausey, 12/18/2004 12:41:20 EST (3.88 / 9)
          • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by harlan wilkerson, 12/19/2004 03:10:11 EST (3.75 / 8)
            • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by mikey, 12/19/2004 11:32:10 EST (4.25 / 8)
              • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by br3n, 12/19/2004 14:23:53 EST (3.28 / 7)
    • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by Potential Recruit, 12/17/2004 01:27:54 EST (1.42 / 14)
  • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by harlan wilkerson, 12/17/2004 00:09:34 EST (3.50 / 10)
    • Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever by nono2sco, 12/17/2004 02:09:52 EST (3.25 / 8)
Re: Whatever Happened To Whatever (3.00 / 11) (#3)
by tintak on Thu Dec 16th, 2004 at 19:13:22 EST
(User Info)
Thanks for the detailed post.
As an outsider it is interesting to see a little of the kind of things that went on.

Ho hum. (2.50 / 12) (#10)
by Potential Recruit on Fri Dec 17th, 2004 at 01:30:45 EST
Was this diary entry really necessary? You already expressed your anger that PJ has not published all the material you sent her. Why repeat yourself?

Maybe the question I should ask is "how many times do you intend to post an entry about the same complaint and the same person"?

I honestly want to know the answer to that question.

  • Re: Ho hum. by harlan wilkerson, 12/17/2004 02:29:44 EST (3.78 / 14)
    • Re: Ho hum. by Potential Recruit, 12/17/2004 02:44:35 EST (1.64 / 14)
      • Re: Ho hum. by nono2sco, 12/17/2004 02:47:35 EST (3.45 / 11)
        • Re: Ho hum. by Potential Recruit, 12/17/2004 12:08:42 EST (2.63 / 11)
          • Re: Ho hum. by nono2sco, 12/17/2004 13:29:30 EST (3.66 / 6)
            • Re: Ho hum. by Potential Recruit, 12/17/2004 17:38:29 EST (2.50 / 8)
              • Re: Ho hum. by JCausey, 12/17/2004 21:38:15 EST (4.54 / 11)
                • Re: Ho hum. by harlan wilkerson, 12/18/2004 05:33:43 EST (3.50 / 8)
                • Re: Ho hum. by heimdal31, 12/17/2004 22:50:29 EST (3.42 / 7)
                  • Re: Ho hum. by JCausey, 12/18/2004 12:50:35 EST (3.50 / 8)
                    • Re: Ho hum. by pgk, 12/18/2004 13:09:30 EST (3.57 / 7)
                      • Re: Ho hum. by JCausey, 12/19/2004 19:52:04 EST (3.25 / 4)
                        • Re: Ho hum. by pgk, 12/20/2004 06:36:57 EST (4.00 / 6)
                          • Re: Ho hum. by JCausey, 12/20/2004 08:51:13 EST (3.20 / 5)
                    • Re: Ho hum. by nono2sco, 12/18/2004 13:09:44 EST (3.00 / 5)
                      • Re: Ho hum. by JCausey, 12/19/2004 19:54:04 EST (3.40 / 5)
                  • Re: Ho hum. by JCausey, 12/17/2004 23:28:27 EST (3.00 / 5)
                • Re: Ho hum. by Potential Recruit, 12/17/2004 23:40:53 EST (2.60 / 5)
              • Re: Ho hum. by br3n, 12/17/2004 17:56:39 EST (3.00 / 4)
                • Re: Ho hum. by Potential Recruit, 12/17/2004 23:38:38 EST (2.25 / 8)
                  • Re: Ho hum. by nono2sco, 12/17/2004 23:56:05 EST (3.87 / 8)
                  • Re: Ho hum. by pgk, 12/18/2004 04:13:12 EST (3.66 / 9)
                    • Re: Ho hum. by tintak, 12/18/2004 09:14:07 EST (3.72 / 11)
                  • Re: Ho hum. by br3n, 12/18/2004 08:58:29 EST (3.66 / 9)
              • Re: Ho hum. by nono2sco, 12/17/2004 21:29:17 EST (3.00 / 6)
      • Re: Ho hum. by hgc, 12/18/2004 10:03:16 EST (3.30 / 10)
        • Re: Ho hum. by harlan wilkerson, 12/19/2004 03:59:38 EST (3.40 / 5)
  • Re: Ho hum. by br3n, 12/17/2004 12:39:30 EST (3.66 / 6)
Two in one day. (1.35 / 17) (#4)
by Potential Recruit on Thu Dec 16th, 2004 at 19:13:53 EST
Two PJ posts in one day!. Cool.

Bye bye spambot (none / 0) (#78)
by Potential Recruit on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 13:18:32 EST
This used to be a spambot post that is flooding the site. Due to volume, I had to resort to this while I work to block access by these bots. My apologies - thanks for your patience.

Jeff

Whatever Happened To Whatever | 78 comments (78 topical, 0 editorial, 3 hidden)
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