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Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works


Patents

By heimdal31, Section Diary
Posted on Mon Feb 21st, 2005 at 17:29:33 EST

Open source expert Bruce Perens, author of 15 books on the subject, said at a LinuxWorld news conference he was recently recruited as an expert witness for what was described as "the defining Linux patent infringement case" (he was later rejected because of conflicts of interest).

The above is a quote in a recent Australian ComputerWorld overview of LinuxWorld  It is the only mention I've seen anywhere, but I would expect that there will be more details coming out soon.

I would imagine that he is under some type of NDA and can't say very much.  In fact, I'm glad that he felt he could mention it at all.  If someone is shopping for expert witnesses now, when do you think a suit will be filed?

Now, thus far, IBM's 500 patents  and SUN's lessor grant of more patents are merely grants to use the patents in F/OSS.

In the SCO suit, we've seen IBM attacked and coming to their own (and thus, Linux's) defense quite heartily.  Will we see IBM launch a patent counter-attack at anyone threatening F/OSS?  And, if IBM wanted to, could they launch one if it was someone that IBM had a cross-licensing agreement with?

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Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works | 198 comments (198 topical, 0 editorial, 42 hidden)
Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works (4.37 / 8) (#56)
by codswallet on Tue Feb 22nd, 2005 at 20:25:32 EST
(User Info)
I'm of two minds about this Harlan. A first amendment case to the Supreme Court will lose. The votes aren't there. You'd be lucky to get 6-3.

That's why I think you're wrong about the importance of fighting software patents in Europe. The only way to stop them now is by setting up a situation where we're the only major country that permits them. At that point they will become a commercial liability to many companies, and it may be possible to gain the necessary support in congress.

You should never bring a precedent setting case you're sure to lose, just because it's a matter of principal. You're just making it harder for the court to see things your way later.

Also, as cross-licensing becomes more widespread. The position of the patent extortionists like Myhrvold will become more exposed like the trial lawyers are now. Then there will be pressure on congress to reform.

  • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by harlan wilkerson, 02/22/2005 20:51:13 EST (4.28 / 7)
  • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by Potential Recruit, 02/22/2005 20:40:25 EST (4.00 / 8)
  • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by mikey, 02/22/2005 21:06:03 EST (3.83 / 6)
    • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by harlan wilkerson, 02/22/2005 22:23:44 EST (4.37 / 8)
    • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by codswallet, 02/22/2005 21:47:38 EST (3.71 / 7)
      • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by total insanity, 02/22/2005 22:05:40 EST (3.71 / 7)
      • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by mikey, 02/22/2005 22:00:05 EST (3.50 / 6)
Partial transcription of interview (4.28 / 7) (#14)
by mikey (mikey at badpenguins dot com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2005 at 00:10:58 EST
(User Info) http://www.ip-wars.net
Here is a transcription of the relevant discussion during the Perens interview with David Berlind at zdnet.  Any spelling mistakes are, of course, mine.


Berlind: For example who do you think will be the next big, high profile lawsuit?  Who will initiate it, and who will their target be?

Perens: So one of the things I've done as a strategic consultant is being an expert witness, where I read all of depositions that are made to the court reporter, I make my own findings and try to explain all of the technology to the Judge in my own deposition.  And then the Judge, the poor guy who usually is not a technologist can decide which expert he believes better, and make a decision on the case.  Well, experts like that have been recruited recently and I answered one of these recruiting calls and was told no you have a conflict of interest.  They were looking specifically for a linux expert and they told me well I have a conflict of interest.  Well, that means it must have been some anti-linux company that was doing the recruiting.  More recently we have heard Microsoft is recruiting so called intellectual property or patent engineers, and, they said that these engineers would be researching prior art.  But what I think they are actually out to research is existing infringement.  And I see the potential for Microsoft to bring a large number of patent infringement suits against linux and open source simultaneously.  In fact about two and a half years ago they briefed HP that they would be doing that, and they even said that the sendmail program would be one of their victims.  I mean we're getting into things less well known than linux and apache.  And they did not implement that plan.  Now part of that at the time might have been the anti-trust, which was going on both in the US and in Europe, part of that might have been that they found SCO to be their proxy, and that they wanted to hold back on software patent suits until they got the laws that they wanted in Europe.




---
DISCLAIMER:
IANAL, may have no idea what the heck I am talking about, yadda yadda yadda.
  • Re: Partial transcription of interview by harlan wilkerson, 02/22/2005 01:43:45 EST (3.71 / 7)
    • Re: Partial transcription of interview by Potential Recruit, 02/22/2005 03:39:27 EST (1.30 / 10)
      • Re: Partial transcription of interview by mikey, 02/22/2005 10:21:24 EST (4.14 / 7)
        • Re: Partial transcription of interview by joedirt, 02/22/2005 12:14:55 EST (3.37 / 8)
          • Re: Partial transcription of interview by harlan wilkerson, 02/22/2005 18:27:52 EST (3.83 / 6)
          • Re: Partial transcription of interview by mikey, 02/22/2005 14:42:56 EST (3.75 / 4)
      • Re: Partial transcription of interview by JCausey, 02/22/2005 09:18:14 EST (4.12 / 8)
        • Re: Partial transcription of interview by Potential Recruit, 02/22/2005 12:12:29 EST (1.77 / 9)
          • Re: Partial transcription of interview by JCausey, 02/22/2005 12:33:16 EST (4.12 / 8)
            • Re: Partial transcription of interview by codswallet, 02/22/2005 12:48:54 EST (4.55 / 9)
              • Re: Partial transcription of interview by Potential Recruit, 02/22/2005 15:08:30 EST (1.83 / 6)
                • Re: Partial transcription of interview by codswallet, 02/22/2005 18:58:09 EST (4.00 / 8)
            • Re: Partial transcription of interview by harlan wilkerson, 02/22/2005 18:06:41 EST (4.20 / 5)
            • Re: Partial transcription of interview by Potential Recruit, 02/22/2005 15:06:19 EST (1.85 / 7)
              • Re: Partial transcription of interview by JCausey, 02/22/2005 15:22:25 EST (4.28 / 7)
                • Re: Partial transcription of interview by Potential Recruit, 02/22/2005 15:36:01 EST (2.28 / 7)
                  • Re: Partial transcription of interview by harlan wilkerson, 02/22/2005 20:10:15 EST (4.28 / 7)
                    • Re: Partial transcription of interview by Potential Recruit, 02/22/2005 20:20:01 EST (2.00 / 7)
                      • Re: Partial transcription of interview by harlan wilkerson, 02/22/2005 20:34:10 EST (3.62 / 8)
                        • Re: Partial transcription of interview by Potential Recruit, 02/27/2005 08:26:09 EST (1.40 / 5)
                    • Re: Partial transcription of interview by Potential Recruit, 02/23/2005 12:05:19 EST (1.00 / 6)
                  • Re: Partial transcription of interview by br3n, 02/22/2005 19:54:30 EST (3.66 / 3)
                    • Re: Partial transcription of interview by Potential Recruit, 02/23/2005 12:07:39 EST (1.37 / 8)
                      • Re: Partial transcription of interview by nono2sco, 02/23/2005 13:29:40 EST (4.20 / 5)
                        • Re: Partial transcription of interview by mikey, 02/23/2005 15:47:33 EST (4.20 / 5)
                          • Re: Partial transcription of interview by br3n, 02/23/2005 16:00:36 EST (4.00 / 4)
                      • Re: Partial transcription of interview by br3n, 02/23/2005 12:15:45 EST (3.66 / 3)
                        • Re: Partial transcription of interview by Potential Recruit, 02/24/2005 00:02:50 EST (1.75 / 4)
                          • Re: Partial transcription of interview by rex007can, 02/24/2005 09:17:43 EST (3.66 / 6)
                      • Re: Partial transcription of interview by br3n, 02/23/2005 12:18:38 EST (3.50 / 4)
                        • They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by mikey, 02/23/2005 15:33:54 EST (3.25 / 8)
                          • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by br3n, 02/23/2005 16:05:52 EST (3.75 / 4)
                            • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by mikey, 02/23/2005 16:10:40 EST (4.40 / 5)
                          • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by mitmosnar, 02/23/2005 19:25:30 EST (3.50 / 6)
                            • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by mikey, 02/23/2005 19:53:22 EST (4.25 / 4)
                              • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by daveventura, 02/23/2005 19:56:20 EST (3.75 / 4)
                            • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by mikey, 02/23/2005 19:33:40 EST (4.00 / 3)
                              • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by harlan wilkerson, 02/23/2005 20:30:06 EST (4.50 / 4)
                            • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by daveventura, 02/23/2005 19:30:51 EST (3.75 / 4)
                            • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by mrbuttle, 02/23/2005 23:35:32 EST (3.66 / 6)
                              • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by mikey, 02/24/2005 00:31:52 EST (4.00 / 3)
                                • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by mrbuttle, 02/24/2005 08:32:53 EST (3.50 / 4)
                          • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by Potential Recruit, 02/24/2005 13:55:18 EST (3.33 / 3)
                            • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by nono2sco, 02/24/2005 15:28:23 EST (3.66 / 3)
                          • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by Potential Recruit, 02/23/2005 16:16:31 EST (3.14 / 7)
                            • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by Potential Recruit, 02/23/2005 19:30:59 EST (3.66 / 6)
                              • Jeff, Mikey by Potential Recruit, 02/24/2005 08:08:51 EST (3.00 / 3)
                                • Re: Jeff, Mikey by Napoleon Reddress, 02/24/2005 13:09:52 EST (4.00 / 5)
                                  • Re: Jeff, Mikey by Potential Recruit, 02/24/2005 13:34:05 EST (3.50 / 4)
                                    • Re: Jeff, Mikey by AncientBrit, 02/24/2005 13:58:42 EST (3.83 / 6)
                                      • Hello AncientBrit by Napoleon Reddress, 02/24/2005 14:28:52 EST (3.57 / 7)
                                      • Re: Jeff, Mikey by Potential Recruit, 02/24/2005 14:22:36 EST (1.12 / 8)
                                      • Re: Jeff, Mikey by Potential Recruit, 02/24/2005 14:05:47 EST (1.10 / 10)
                                        • Re: Jeff, Mikey by rex007can, 02/24/2005 14:09:11 EST (3.28 / 7)
                                • Re: Jeff, Mikey by nono2sco, 02/24/2005 10:20:48 EST (3.50 / 4)
                                  • Re: Jeff, Mikey by Potential Recruit, 02/24/2005 10:24:20 EST (3.33 / 3)
                                • Re: Jeff, Mikey by JCausey, 02/24/2005 08:54:29 EST (3.40 / 5)
                                  • Thanks (eom) by Potential Recruit, 02/24/2005 10:19:58 EST (3.33 / 3)
                            • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by Potential Recruit, 02/23/2005 19:07:41 EST (3.33 / 3)
                              • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by codswallet, 02/24/2005 10:29:25 EST (4.20 / 10)
                                • Promote to diary by sphealey, 02/24/2005 10:41:06 EST (3.60 / 5)
                                  • Re: Promote to diary by codswallet, 02/24/2005 14:08:53 EST (4.33 / 6)
                                    • Re: Promote to diary by nono2sco, 02/24/2005 15:11:33 EST (3.66 / 3)
                                      • Re: Promote to diary by codswallet, 02/24/2005 15:21:05 EST (3.66 / 3)
                                        • Re: Promote to diary by nono2sco, 02/24/2005 15:39:01 EST (3.66 / 3)
                                          • Re: Promote to diary by sphealey, 02/24/2005 17:44:15 EST (4.00 / 5)
                                          • Re: Promote to diary by codswallet, 02/24/2005 16:25:00 EST (3.75 / 4)
                                    • Re: Promote to diary by sphealey, 02/24/2005 16:13:59 EST (3.40 / 5)
                                  • Re: Promote to diary by JCausey, 02/24/2005 11:00:53 EST (4.00 / 7)
                                  • Re: Promote to diary by system5, 02/24/2005 12:32:58 EST (4.00 / 7)
                                    • Re: Promote to diary by mrbuttle, 02/24/2005 21:42:35 EST (3.80 / 5)
                                    • Re: Promote to diary by nono2sco, 02/24/2005 12:57:50 EST (3.50 / 4)
                                      • Re: Promote to diary by ColonelZen, 02/24/2005 13:08:25 EST (3.33 / 3)
                                        • Re: Promote to diary by nono2sco, 02/24/2005 13:20:02 EST (3.33 / 3)
                                  • Re: Promote to diary by nono2sco, 02/24/2005 11:51:01 EST (3.50 / 4)
                                • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by Potential Recruit, 02/24/2005 10:42:20 EST (3.50 / 4)
                          • What happened to my comment? by Potential Recruit, 02/23/2005 16:42:42 EST (2.25 / 4)
                            • Re: What happened to my comment? by Napoleon Reddress, 02/23/2005 18:03:23 EST (3.20 / 5)
                              • Re: What happened to my comment? by heimdal31, 02/23/2005 18:21:49 EST (3.50 / 4)
                              • Re: What happened to my comment? by Potential Recruit, 02/23/2005 18:10:34 EST (2.50 / 4)
                            • Re: What happened to my comment? by nono2sco, 02/23/2005 17:05:20 EST (none / 2)
                          • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by Potential Recruit, 02/23/2005 16:03:25 EST (1.77 / 9)
                            • Re: They are crapflooding Brenda, Ignore them by mikey, 02/23/2005 16:09:11 EST (3.50 / 6)
                        • Re: Partial transcription of interview by Potential Recruit, 02/24/2005 00:00:51 EST (1.50 / 4)
                  • Re: Partial transcription of interview by JCausey, 02/22/2005 17:39:04 EST (3.60 / 5)
      • Re: Partial transcription of interview by harlan wilkerson, 02/22/2005 18:39:11 EST (3.66 / 6)
  • Re: Partial transcription of interview by system5, 02/23/2005 14:45:36 EST (3.60 / 5)
Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works (4.00 / 6) (#2)
by mrbuttle on Mon Feb 21st, 2005 at 18:16:56 EST
(User Info)
I was reading Perens talking points for his Linuxworld presentation, and he mentions something I've forgotten about. He warns about proxy patent attacks from people like Nathan Myhrvold. Myhrvold is former chief technology officer at Microsoft who along with his partner, former Microsoft chief software architect Edward Jung, founded and run Intellectual Ventures.

Newsweek describes Intellectual Ventures this way:

... [a] quintessential company for the 21st century. It doesn't actually make anything: it outsources, offshores and offloads nearly every task performed by regular corporations. It has no factories, machine shops or marketing teams. Only patent attorneys populate the quiet hallways. The five-year-old firm's plan is to create or buy new ideas, accumulate patents--exclusive rights to use the inventions--and rent those ideas to companies that need them to do the gritty work of producing real products.

And describes their strategy:

Sources familiar with Myhrvold's strategy say that he has raised $350 million from some of the largest companies in high tech: Microsoft, Intel, Sony, Nokia and Apple. Google and eBay also recently invested. With this large bankroll, the company is out buying existing patents in droves. (Myhrvold won't comment on these activities, but sources say he has already purchased about 1,000 patents.) The strategy is to set up a sort of patent marketplace.

Maybe this has something to do with it?

  • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by heimdal31, 02/21/2005 22:02:44 EST (4.33 / 3)
    • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by harlan wilkerson, 02/22/2005 01:22:02 EST (4.50 / 8)
    • What The Huddled Masses Can Do by daveventura, 02/21/2005 22:08:57 EST (4.40 / 5)
    • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by mikey, 02/21/2005 22:11:10 EST (4.25 / 4)
      • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by codswallet, 02/21/2005 22:42:18 EST (4.50 / 6)
        • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by mikey, 02/21/2005 22:47:16 EST (3.25 / 4)
    • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by Potential Recruit, 02/22/2005 01:17:21 EST (1.40 / 10)
      • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by nono2sco, 02/22/2005 03:17:15 EST (4.00 / 4)
        • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by Potential Recruit, 02/22/2005 03:56:11 EST (1.77 / 9)
        • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by Potential Recruit, 02/22/2005 04:04:32 EST (1.44 / 9)
          • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by nono2sco, 02/22/2005 12:26:46 EST (3.75 / 4)
          • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by total insanity, 02/22/2005 06:54:41 EST (3.50 / 6)
            • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by Potential Recruit, 02/22/2005 12:22:11 EST (2.83 / 6)
              • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by total insanity, 02/22/2005 14:13:21 EST (3.25 / 4)
                • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by Potential Recruit, 02/22/2005 15:12:29 EST (3.25 / 4)
  • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by daveventura, 02/21/2005 18:40:50 EST (3.66 / 6)
Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works (4.00 / 7) (#5)
by harlan wilkerson on Mon Feb 21st, 2005 at 19:28:02 EST
(User Info)
Will we see IBM launch a patent counter-attack at anyone threatening F/OSS?  And, if IBM wanted to, could they launch one if it was someone that IBM had a cross-licensing agreement with?

IBM made a fifty million dollar investment in Novell. Novell has said they will will countersue or attempt to license any patents their products infringe upon.

Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works (3.83 / 6) (#1)
by mikey (mikey at badpenguins dot com) on Mon Feb 21st, 2005 at 18:05:06 EST
(User Info) http://www.ip-wars.net
Surprise surprise, an OSRM employee announces he was recruited as an expert witness for "the defining Linux patent infringement case".  He is then rejected due to conflicts of interest.

No clues given about who "might" be filing the case, where, when, and why someone going after linux would seek his help in filing it.

Hmm, Deja Vu.


---
DISCLAIMER:
IANAL, may have no idea what the heck I am talking about, yadda yadda yadda.

  • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by Potential Recruit, 02/21/2005 18:53:53 EST (2.75 / 8)
    • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by mikey, 02/21/2005 19:39:49 EST (3.85 / 7)
      • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by harlan wilkerson, 02/21/2005 20:58:34 EST (4.00 / 7)
        • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by mikey, 02/21/2005 22:14:32 EST (4.00 / 4)
  • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by Potential Recruit, 02/22/2005 03:33:08 EST (1.44 / 9)
    • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by mikey, 02/22/2005 10:33:08 EST (4.00 / 7)
      • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by Potential Recruit, 02/22/2005 12:24:34 EST (2.57 / 7)
        • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by mikey, 02/22/2005 14:49:36 EST (4.16 / 6)
          • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by rex007can, 02/22/2005 15:03:40 EST (3.25 / 4)
          • Re: Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works by Potential Recruit, 02/22/2005 15:37:27 EST (1.00 / 5)
Now my other comment is gone? ? ? (2.00 / 7) (#83)
by Potential Recruit on Wed Feb 23rd, 2005 at 16:55:21 EST
First my main comment disappears and now my second comment disappears.

Is there something wrong with this website?

I was lead to believe that polite dissent was welcome and encouraged here.

You should have a banner on the first page of your website informing Potential Recruits that their comments will become hidden if they politely make critical comments.

moondoggy

  • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by heimdal31, 02/23/2005 18:16:51 EST (4.40 / 5)
    • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by Potential Recruit, 02/23/2005 18:25:35 EST (1.00 / 5)
      • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by heimdal31, 02/23/2005 18:40:52 EST (4.40 / 5)
  • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by nono2sco, 02/23/2005 17:25:51 EST (3.50 / 4)
    • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by Potential Recruit, 02/23/2005 18:07:01 EST (2.50 / 4)
      • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by nono2sco, 02/23/2005 18:13:23 EST (3.66 / 3)
        • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by Potential Recruit, 02/23/2005 18:28:54 EST (1.75 / 4)
          • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by daveventura, 02/23/2005 18:38:47 EST (4.00 / 7)
            • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by Potential Recruit, 02/23/2005 18:58:55 EST (1.50 / 4)
              • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by daveventura, 02/23/2005 19:15:37 EST (4.28 / 7)
                • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by mikey, 02/23/2005 19:23:52 EST (4.40 / 5)
                • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by Potential Recruit, 02/23/2005 19:23:24 EST (2.20 / 5)
                  • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by daveventura, 02/23/2005 19:29:08 EST (4.00 / 4)
                  • Goodbye moondoggy. by Napoleon Reddress, 02/24/2005 05:59:33 EST (4.00 / 4)
          • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by heimdal31, 02/23/2005 18:35:28 EST (3.75 / 4)
            • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by Potential Recruit, 02/24/2005 00:08:14 EST (3.00 / 5)
              • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by JCausey, 02/24/2005 09:12:14 EST (4.60 / 5)
                • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by Potential Recruit, 02/24/2005 13:58:45 EST (2.50 / 4)
                  • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by JCausey, 02/24/2005 14:25:54 EST (4.00 / 4)
                  • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by nono2sco, 02/24/2005 15:31:01 EST (3.66 / 3)
    • Re: Now my other comment is gone? ? ? by Potential Recruit, 02/23/2005 17:53:51 EST (1.50 / 4)
      • OT: Where can I go ? ? ? by hgc, 02/28/2005 03:56:19 EST (3.00 / 3)
        • Re: OT: Where can I go ? ? ? by Potential Recruit, 02/28/2005 05:40:46 EST (2.25 / 4)
Bye bye spambot (none / 0) (#198)
by Potential Recruit on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 12:44:24 EST
This used to be a spambot post that is flooding the site. Due to volume, I had to resort to this while I work to block access by these bots. My apologies - thanks for your patience.

Jeff

Perens says a Patent Suit is in the Works | 198 comments (198 topical, 0 editorial, 42 hidden)
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