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I'm Back (with a possible solution)


Scoop

By joedirt, Section Diary
Posted on Wed Mar 23rd, 2005 at 02:59:44 EST

One possible solution to the woes of this web site.

Well I am back. That's not completely true, I didn't go away in a literal sense, I merely stopped posting for a while. I have been lurking on and off though and I finally decided to become active again.

What I have observed unfortunately is not a pretty site. This site is going downhill fast. Most people here blame the PRs for that but I believe that blaming PRs is a fallacy. They have no real power. Unfortunately the any blame (or credit) for this web site falls squarely on the shoulders of the trusted users. Jeff is fond of saying that this is a community site and if you read between the lines and observe his actions by "community" he clearly means the trusted users.

I believe that it's time to shake things up. So I am going to do the following.

  1. I will not post, I will only rate.
  2. I will rate all PRs a five.
  3. I will rate all trusted users that appear on the diary entry "TU activity" a one.
  4. I will rate any other user according to the official rating guidelines of this web site.

The idea is to demote the current batch of trusted users and promote new users in their place. Hopefully they will do a better job.

Of course I am only one person. The TUs will rate each other up and and my occational 1 rating will be washed out in the recs. Neither will my rating the PRs up stop them from being hidden as dozens of TUs rate them zeros. It may just end up being a symbolic gesture of civil disobedience and nothing more but that's OK with me.

Having said that I urge all PRs to get real accounts and do the same thing. This is your chance to become a trusted user and lead this web site.  You can change this web site by changing the community, you can take this web site where you think it ought to go rather then where it is going. Get a nym, invite your friends to get nyms too. We just need 20 to 30 people to replace the current batch of trusted users. That's not a large number.

Let what is happening all around the world be an inspiration to you. Look at the Ukraine. Look at lebanon and palestine. It's possible to effect change and oust tyranny no matter how powerful or entrenched without violence. We can do it  through peaceful protest, civic action and disobedience and of course moderation.

Some of you may be scared, I know that I am. I expect retaliation to be severe. I fully expect the trusted users to try and find my real identity, I expect them to stalk me online and perhaps even in real life should they find out who I am. There have been numerous threats of legal actions so I don't rule out being sued or charged with criminal offenses either. This is America and anybody can press charges or sue anybody. That is why I am not going to post, only rate. It will be very difficult to go the FBI and file a complain that somebody is rating you down. OTOH I am not a lawyer, perhaps there are legal theories I am not aware of. I take don't take the threats of criminal or civil action lightly and neither should you. This site is not more important then your family or job, if a TU says he knows who you are and is going to press charges it's not wise to push it. I believe they are very serious about this, you could have your life ruined. Be careful

Here is my non legal common sense advice. If you do plan on getting an account please take precautions. Use throwaway email addresses (like spamgourmet), use proxy servers (try proxyrama) or an online anonymizer. If possible post from public places. You can never be sure who will get your private information and share it with whom. Make copies of any offensive or abusive post you see by trusted users (they might disappear once charges are filed). If you are savvy with code maybe try to mirror the site, you never know if all those posts might come in handy during your trial.

Well that's it. I will not post any comments or diary entries from here on out. I am only here to rate. Have a nice day.

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I'm Back (with a possible solution) | 173 comments (173 topical, 0 editorial, 14 hidden)
Show & Tell... (4.08 / 12) (#1)
by matesrates on Wed Mar 23rd, 2005 at 07:04:25 EST
(User Info)
Request: One piece of news or opinion around IP or IT issues per trusted user per week.

If this replaced rather than supplemented just one response to a troll, so much the better.

If we can't do that, I agree with joedirt that this site is becoming counter-productive.

To those (bren & system5 come to mind) who already do this, your efforts are sincerely appreciated.

crash-happy virus magnet

  • Re: Show &amp; Tell... by Sunny, 03/23/2005 12:17:43 EST (4.50 / 6)
    • Re: Show & Tell... by matesrates, 03/23/2005 12:57:51 EST (4.37 / 8)
      • Re: Show &amp; Tell... by codswallet, 03/23/2005 19:40:40 EST (3.85 / 7)
        • Re: Show and Tell... by matesrates, 03/23/2005 21:56:12 EST (4.12 / 8)
          • Re: Show and Tell... by codswallet, 03/23/2005 22:46:25 EST (4.16 / 6)
Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) (4.00 / 8) (#18)
by heurtley on Wed Mar 23rd, 2005 at 14:36:36 EST
(User Info)
I'd like to take this opportunity to notify people that the nearly 700 comments in the Administrative Actions diary overflows a 1MB buffer in version 0.04 of Sieve. I've uploaded a new version, 0.05, with a 2MB buffer to my web site:

http://www.heurtley.com/richard/sieve

I added a note about this to the Sieve diary but I'm afraid it didn't last very long on the "Recent Comments" list.

With its default configuration Sieve removes nearly 600 of the 700 comments in "Administrative Actions".

  • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Sunny, 03/23/2005 17:14:50 EST (3.75 / 4)
Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) (3.75 / 12) (#5)
by fudisbad on Wed Mar 23rd, 2005 at 07:57:19 EST
(User Info)
Even though I think that some of the trusted users are partially to blame for the trolling, the PR trolls are the real culprits here. Some of them used to have accounts but were banned because they were abusing the site (eg magic: he called flimbag a "religious bigot"). They have to learn to stop libelling people and calling names. They should bring up their complaints in a civil manner. (that's not libel because it is the truth)

I am of the assumption that trusted users 0-rate posts that contain personal attacks (as well as posts that are spam). I am a trusted user and I 0-rate such posts. Here is one of them (posted by a PR trollbot, emphasis added). This cries out for a zero.

Most of the comments that have been zeroed and made to disappear were done not because of offensive content or violations of your own rules.

Rather, they were disappeared just because some mental midget like nono or mikey decided they didn't like the poster or the message.

Perhaps you should consider the fact that when your own trusted users violate your own rules then the gloves come off. Why should PRs abide by your rules when you don't?

Well guess what, the reposting of hidden messages is not even a violation of your own rules. How can it be crapflooding if only a single message is visible?

As for the supposedly offensive content of the post under Harry's comment, you have to be [redacted] kidding! It is nothing compared to some of the vile spew that routinely comes from Harry not to mention some of your other trusted users (flimbag aka jobber).

Not to mention the threats of legal consequences by Zen, the fat kid (Mikey) and others. Who are they kidding?

The bad behaviour by your own trusted members set the stage as it exists today.

Here is an interesting HIDDEN thread by some of ip-wars brightest lights! www.ip-wars.net/comments/2005/3/20/21817/2957/21?*#21

Even in the hidden thread, they hide PR posts. What is funny about that is nobody can see it but them anyway. What does that tell you about their intelligence?

Full Auto

Even though you might think the trusted users have been a bit generous in handing out zeroes, both you and me do not want crap like the above flooding the site (this particular one has been posted about 10 times).

Now I need to clean my mind out.




Darl McBride, show your evidence!
Back a stock scam, buy SCOXE!

  • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Potential Recruit, 03/24/2005 00:09:48 EST (1.41 / 12)
    • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by harlan wilkerson, 03/24/2005 15:55:43 EST (3.33 / 6)
    • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Potential Recruit, 03/24/2005 10:46:28 EST (3.25 / 8)
      • Joe Dirt you forgot my 5! Jo. EOM!! by Potential Recruit, 03/24/2005 14:06:26 EST (2.37 / 8)
        • Re: Joe Dirt you forgot my 5! Jo. EOM!! by Sunny, 03/24/2005 15:36:04 EST (3.66 / 3)
  • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Potential Recruit, 03/23/2005 08:07:46 EST (1.00 / 13)
Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) (3.68 / 16) (#2)
by FrogstarRobot on Wed Mar 23rd, 2005 at 07:15:30 EST
(User Info)
If you rate up asshats employing crapflood scripts you can indeed "Expect severe reaction."

Fallacy my butt.   We've had what can be no more than three people abusing every bound of civility.  History counts here.  I've said it before, I'll say it again.  Certain people have said more than once "I'm just here to attack you."  If I reasonably believe a posting is from that camp then they will suck zero.

Jeff, a short term solution to our current troubles is very simple and would entail a lot less effort on your part then on ours.  It works like this:

iptables -A INPUT -s "$ip" -j DROP

Most people don't have access to an unlimited supply of IPs.  Anyone that does is probably breaking into other machines to get them which would speak volumes about certain people on the other side.

Is this a hammer to use on any troll? No.  Crapflooders using a script? Oh yes.  Some of us can write scripts too.  One that uses an iptable drop is what is called for here.

  • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Potential Recruit, 03/23/2005 15:53:49 EST (2.00 / 9)
Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) (3.66 / 9) (#17)
by Sunny on Wed Mar 23rd, 2005 at 14:14:34 EST
(User Info) http://www.streetdrummers.org/guarana
  1. I will not post, I will only rate.
  2. I will rate all PRs a five.
  3. I will rate all trusted users that appear on the diary entry "TU activity" a one.

4. You will be the next entry on the administrative actions page.

  • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Full Auto, 03/23/2005 15:00:58 EST (2.55 / 9)
    • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by nono2sco, 03/23/2005 15:27:10 EST (3.33 / 9)
      • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Sunny, 03/23/2005 16:31:19 EST (3.71 / 7)
        • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by nono2sco, 03/23/2005 16:52:30 EST (3.40 / 5)
          • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Sunny, 03/23/2005 16:55:25 EST (3.60 / 5)
        • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Potential Recruit, 03/24/2005 00:11:56 EST (3.00 / 9)
          • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Sunny, 03/24/2005 02:27:41 EST (4.00 / 7)
      • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Potential Recruit, 03/23/2005 15:51:33 EST (3.11 / 9)
        • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by nono2sco, 03/23/2005 16:39:34 EST (3.66 / 9)
          • Well I for one by Potential Recruit, 03/24/2005 11:05:58 EST (3.66 / 6)
            • Re: Well I for one by JCausey, 03/24/2005 11:43:35 EST (4.14 / 7)
              • Re: Well I for one by Sunny, 03/24/2005 19:34:08 EST (4.00 / 4)
                • Re: Well I for one by Full Auto, 03/24/2005 20:05:15 EST (3.66 / 6)
                  • Re: Well I for one by JCausey, 03/24/2005 20:41:47 EST (4.00 / 7)
                  • Re: Well I for one by Sunny, 03/24/2005 20:49:50 EST (3.83 / 6)
                    • Thanks <eom> by Full Auto, 03/24/2005 21:23:51 EST (3.25 / 4)
              • Re: Well I for one by nono2sco, 03/24/2005 11:50:24 EST (3.00 / 4)
                • Re: Well I for one by nono2sco, 03/24/2005 11:54:34 EST (3.20 / 5)
                  • Re: Well I for one by Sunny, 03/24/2005 15:43:09 EST (3.77 / 9)
                    • Re: Well I for one by nono2sco, 03/24/2005 17:05:13 EST (4.28 / 7)
                      • Re: Well I for one by Sunny, 03/26/2005 15:21:12 EST (4.14 / 7)
                        • Re: Well I for one by nono2sco, 03/27/2005 21:28:12 EST (3.60 / 5)
                        • Re: Well I for one by harlan wilkerson, 03/26/2005 15:46:11 EST (3.50 / 6)
                      • Re: Well I for one by nono2sco, 03/24/2005 17:07:24 EST (3.20 / 5)
          • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Potential Recruit, 03/24/2005 00:15:06 EST (1.75 / 8)
            • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Full Auto, 03/24/2005 01:25:16 EST (3.55 / 9)
              • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by nono2sco, 03/24/2005 02:00:38 EST (3.42 / 7)
              • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Potential Recruit, 03/24/2005 02:02:32 EST (1.50 / 10)
                • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by matesrates, 03/24/2005 09:13:09 EST (2.66 / 6)
                • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by nono2sco, 03/24/2005 09:35:24 EST (2.33 / 6)
                • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Potential Recruit, 03/24/2005 09:53:14 EST (1.14 / 7)
            • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by nono2sco, 03/24/2005 00:56:53 EST (3.33 / 6)
              • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Potential Recruit, 03/24/2005 02:01:30 EST (1.75 / 8)
                • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by nono2sco, 03/24/2005 02:16:49 EST (3.00 / 6)
        • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by rex007can, 03/23/2005 16:07:04 EST (3.00 / 9)
          • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by Potential Recruit, 03/24/2005 00:16:21 EST (1.00 / 13)
            • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by rex007can, 03/24/2005 08:17:55 EST (3.11 / 9)
PR Posting is back... (3.66 / 6) (#39)
by Full Auto on Wed Mar 23rd, 2005 at 17:53:13 EST
(User Info)
Well, it appears Jeff has reinstated anonymous PR posting.

By disabling PR postingm this morning, Jeff introduced a 'cooling off' period that allowed everybody an opportunity to review what was going on.

Well done Jeff! I am impressed.

Full Auto

  • Re: PR Posting is back... by Sunny, 03/23/2005 18:11:01 EST (3.50 / 6)
    • Re: PR Posting is back... by Full Auto, 03/23/2005 18:32:55 EST (3.83 / 6)
      • Re: PR Posting is back... by Sunny, 03/23/2005 18:42:28 EST (3.50 / 6)
What is the frequency Kenneth? (3.57 / 7) (#44)
by rampant rancher on Wed Mar 23rd, 2005 at 19:22:53 EST
(User Info) http://www.livestockweekly.com
I just don't understand this.  Isn't this supposed to be about the content of the message?  Why must all posts by non-members be treated with suspicion simply because there isn't a name attached?

Riding fence on the back forty....
RR
Riding fence on the back forty.... RR

  • You Need Fourty Acres and a Mule... by harlan wilkerson, 03/23/2005 22:11:38 EST (4.42 / 14)
    • Re: You Need Fourty Acres and a Mule... by Sunny, 03/24/2005 03:53:02 EST (3.44 / 9)
      • Re: You Need Fourty Acres and a Mule... by harlan wilkerson, 03/24/2005 10:26:37 EST (3.25 / 8)
        • Re: You Need Fourty Acres and a Mule... by Sunny, 03/24/2005 15:23:39 EST (3.57 / 7)
          • Re: You Need Fourty Acres and a Mule... by harlan wilkerson, 03/24/2005 15:32:29 EST (3.50 / 6)
            • Re: You Need Fourty Acres and a Mule... by Sunny, 03/24/2005 19:20:41 EST (3.80 / 5)
              • Re: You Need Fourty Acres and a Mule... by harlan wilkerson, 03/24/2005 19:41:58 EST (3.40 / 5)
  • Re: What is the frequency Kenneth? by br3n, 03/23/2005 20:33:58 EST (3.22 / 9)
  • Re: What is the frequency Kenneth? by Potential Recruit, 04/03/2005 07:21:15 EST (none / 2)
Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) (3.50 / 10) (#8)
by heurtley on Wed Mar 23rd, 2005 at 08:16:02 EST
(User Info)
Jeff, is there really no way to rate diary entries? It really is a pity that there's no offical method to express my sincere appreciation for the so-far by-far funniest post on IP-Wars.

  • Re: I'm Back (with a possible solution) by sphealey, 03/23/2005 09:31:18 EST (3.71 / 7)
Hey! I'm posting as a PR! (2.83 / 6) (#30)
by Potential Recruit on Wed Mar 23rd, 2005 at 16:53:23 EST
So what's the deal? Can one do this or not?

If this had been an actual PR post, I would have mentioned various injustices, taken a personal swipe at whoever I think is the worst offender, and garnished it with irony.

  • Re: Hey! I'm posting as a PR! by Potential Recruit, 03/23/2005 16:57:17 EST (3.42 / 7)
    • Re: Hey! I'm posting as a PR! by Potential Recruit, 03/23/2005 17:00:47 EST (3.66 / 6)
      • Re: Hey! I'm posting as a PR! by Sunny, 03/23/2005 17:12:43 EST (3.80 / 5)
    • Re: Hey! I'm posting as a PR! by nono2sco, 03/23/2005 17:04:09 EST (3.57 / 7)
      • Re: Hey! I'm posting as a PR! by Sunny, 03/23/2005 17:34:28 EST (4.55 / 9)
        • Re: Hey! I'm posting as a PR! by harlan wilkerson, 03/23/2005 19:14:08 EST (3.50 / 4)
  • Re: Hey! I'm posting as a PR! by Full Auto, 03/24/2005 02:55:30 EST (3.14 / 7)
    • Re: Hey! I'm posting as a PR! by Sunny, 03/24/2005 03:32:09 EST (3.62 / 8)
      • Re: Hey! I'm posting as a PR! by Sunny, 03/24/2005 04:02:09 EST (3.25 / 4)
No More PR Posts... (2.27 / 11) (#10)
by Full Auto on Wed Mar 23rd, 2005 at 11:05:44 EST
(User Info)
Jeff has apparently disabled all PR posts to this website so the whole problem of rating PR posts is moot.

I appreciate what Joe Dirt has done and what he expected to accomplish - Thanks Joe.

I am going to have to think about what I am going to do with my new account, maybe an article about website security would be in order.

To the trusted users, do not waste your time threatening me. You will have a lot more luck with a reasonable debate rather than threats and acrimony.

Full Auto

  • Re: No More PR Posts... by Sunny, 03/23/2005 12:32:23 EST (3.80 / 5)
    • Re: No More PR Posts... by Potential Recruit, 03/23/2005 12:33:47 EST (2.75 / 4)
      • Re: No More PR Posts... by Sunny, 03/23/2005 12:36:09 EST (3.80 / 5)
    • Re: No More PR Posts... by Full Auto, 03/23/2005 12:46:45 EST (2.28 / 7)
      • Re: No More PR Posts... by Sunny, 03/23/2005 17:02:45 EST (3.50 / 6)
        • Re: No More PR Posts... by Potential Recruit, 03/24/2005 00:24:00 EST (2.60 / 10)
  • Re: No More PR Posts... by Potential Recruit, 03/23/2005 16:01:53 EST (2.66 / 6)
    • This is odd by Potential Recruit, 03/23/2005 16:41:00 EST (3.50 / 6)
Bye bye spambot (none / 0) (#170)
by Potential Recruit on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 12:25:26 EST
This used to be a spambot post that is flooding the site. Due to volume, I had to resort to this while I work to block access by these bots. My apologies - thanks for your patience.

Jeff

Bye bye spambot (none / 0) (#171)
by Potential Recruit on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 13:39:27 EST
This used to be a spambot post that is flooding the site. Due to volume, I had to resort to this while I work to block access by these bots. My apologies - thanks for your patience.

Jeff

Bye bye spambot (none / 0) (#172)
by Potential Recruit on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 14:27:07 EST
This used to be a spambot post that is flooding the site. Due to volume, I had to resort to this while I work to block access by these bots. My apologies - thanks for your patience.

Jeff

Bye bye spambot (none / 0) (#173)
by Potential Recruit on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 at 14:31:37 EST
This used to be a spambot post that is flooding the site. Due to volume, I had to resort to this while I work to block access by these bots. My apologies - thanks for your patience.

Jeff

I'm Back (with a possible solution) | 173 comments (173 topical, 0 editorial, 14 hidden)
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